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Lorelei 
Joined: 17 Jul 2000
Location: Ryder Stand/Ponsford Stand
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| think positive wrote: |
As a women just let me say this
Who $£$%^%%$ cares? Just get your shit together and win a $£$%^%%$ premiership!im so over all this PC crap |
This is exactly what I said last night too! Enough!
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HANDS OFF OUR JUMPER
**Craig Kelly**Craig Kelly**Craig Kelly**
Floreat Pica |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How did you get over it? |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | I don't think it is that complicated Stui!
The information presented seems pretty clear to me - please inform me if I have it wrong because you seem to have an issue with the speculation that there is something not quite above board - when in fact it may very well be something underhand!. 
1) Gary Pert is Collingwood CEO
2) Gary Pert's wife is now also being paid by CFC for consulting work…
I don't think anyone needs experience in the corporate world to smell something is a bit off with this arrangement.
As David indicated there may be no laws broken with this arrangement - however that is also true for many of the corporations paying little or no tax in Australia - still stinks though! |
My argument is that yes, we know 1 and 2. What we don't know is what process was followed for 2 to happen and that's what can and should rightfully be questioned.
Simply 1 and 2 alone does not mean that something is a bit off, if the appropriate processes and governance were followed. My thought is that given the obvious apparent conflict, appropriate processes would have been followed to ensure no impropriety.
To simply not select the best supplier because their is a potential conflict would be poor form. The trick is to make sure that conflicts of interest don't impact on decision making, not erase them.
I don't see anything wrong, whether ethically or legally, in selecting Perts wife to deliver a service, provided it can be shown that the selection process was clean, transparent and not impacted by Pert. |
How can the selection process be clean? She is the wife of the CEO! Did she have insider info re the role did she have insider info re the culture of the club?
The board was involved in the decision - do any of the members know her already - have they met with her over the last few years at various Collingwood functions? most likely!
Is that an even playing field - no!
Who reviews her contract and if she has delivered? Probably not the board that task seems too low level for a board to be concerned with - more likley Pert or most liklly one of his staff. Are you going to tell him the truth or are you going to keep in mind that this is the wife of the CEO when a performance review is due? Who did make up the contract details?
I would prefer if she was left out of the process due to a conflict of interest - pure and simple - it stinks! Gary and many others are conflicted while she is hired by CFC and he is the CEO!
My partner had a similar experience working for a design company as Director when one of the partner's kids was hired to work as a designer. Hired by the partner... It was very hard not to keep in mind that this was the bosses kid. Massive issue for the other staff members! It happens but it should not happen. The Collingwood football club is not Gary's play thing - nor Eddie or any other Director! They are accountable to the members - and this conduct is not clear or clean - it is very murky! |
I understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree. At least not completely, I do in part.
First problem is that the semblance or perception of impropriety can be as big an issue as actual impropriety. We don't know, hence the speculation. My approach in this is that I'm prepared off the bat to assume the club has done the right thing, others take the reverse view. Glass half full or half empty.
Now, to your arguments and examples.
From what I can see, Collingwood has decided to offer a leadership program to 10 selected female staff. What that actually consists of is rubbery but typically could be anything from a 3-5 day residential or a program spaced over a couple of months containing some facilitated focus groups, a few 1/2 day group sessions, homework assignments, some 1 on 1 coaching and some kind of group finale.
They've contracted a company that Perts wife started and is obviously a key figure in, to deliver this program. Something which is their area of specialty, so the first box is ticked. Does the company provide the service they're buying? Yes.
As consultants/facilitators, the relationship is totally different to that of hiring a relative as a member of staff, even if it's Perts wife who delivers the service. It's a fixed term arrangement to deliver a service, being a leadership program. There's no issues with the CEO's wife being hired to perform the same role as a bunch of other employees and all the issues that would come with that. (Agree the partner hiring their kid in your example is wrong)
Who reviews the performance? Good question actually, if you figure out a good set of metrics to review the successfulness of a leadership course, let me know. We'll go into partnership, make a buttload and then spend it hiding from all the pissed off leadership consultants who are suddenly being held to account. 
The usual way is to get direct participant feedback via questionnaires. Yes, these could be biased because of the relationship but there's any number of other things that can also prevent an accurate response irrespective of who delivered it. The best assessment is of the participants over time following the course in regard to their behaviour, and that's subjective as hell. (you may be forming the opinion that I think leadership courses are generally a massive load of wank. That's a reasonable opinion to form. I also think consultants are someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time)
Finally, how can the selection process be clean? Quite simple.
Targeted RFQ detailing the requirements, criteria and selection panel determined up front, Pert recuses himself from the process due to potential conflict of interest, assessment of quotes conducted in accordance with the criteria, totally objective and fair.
That's assuming they followed a process like that. If Eddie just yelled out, "oi, Perty. Your missus does leadership stuff for women doesn't she? get her to pull together a program for 10 of our staff" then I do have problems, but given the size, duration and purpose of the arrangement, I could get over them. We're talking about a $10-15k leadership course, not a million dollar+ ongoing arrangement. |
if it as you describe it then maybe this is a smallish oversight or blackmark but no biggie… however that rate of 10k- 15k seems a little low - consultants get paid that to show up, especially if she usually works for the big end of town! I also thought the role was more than facilitating and also involved hiring - but I might have mis-read something along the way?
If the services offered were general or the kind of courses that clubs were crying out for you could understand it all - but this PC stuff and the nature of the courses provided seem to be driven from the outside - i.e. from the provider… something like this might have kicked it off…
"Hey Gary, you're CEO of that footy thing with a bucket load of money to spend before the AFL take it away - why don't you let me run some of my courses there…? it's the in thing now you know and besides Eddie and the board love me - pleeeeease…. if it works out well we can make it a regular thing for the new recruits or something"
Gary replies with "oh yeah that PC BS - sure honey you are right - this will give us a lot of brownie points with some in the media and those AFL wankers… I will see what I can do - let me just check the hot(Pies) line and get the all clear from el presidento"
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | Wow three pages and I'm still not sure what's she's consulting on
What I've learnt is apparently collingwood have 10 female employees presumably apart from the shop staff, the ceos wife is now employed she has something to do with blackmores which apparently for some is a Nono although the most potent supplement they have us probably protein powder
As a women just let me say this
Who $£$%^%%$ cares? Just get your shit together and win a $£$%^%%$ premiership!im so over all this PC crap |
Who says they don't want a premiership as (badly) as the rest of us & what makes it "PC crap"?
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| yin-YANG wrote: |
if it as you describe it then maybe this is a smallish oversight or blackmark but no biggie… however that rate of 10k- 15k seems a little low - consultants get paid that to show up, especially if she usually works for the big end of town! I also thought the role was more than facilitating and also involved hiring - but I might have mis-read something along the way? |
My understanding is it's a pilot leadership course for 10 women and I've based my suppositions on that. If it's a wider ongoing role I'll revisit what I posted happily and if it is what I think and they're paying more than $15k then questions do need to be asked cos we're getting ripped off.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Why is the addition of a credentialled female CEO 'PC crap'?
Or is the questions referencing Pert hiring his wife the PC crap?
I'm sure other firms could have supplied the contract to provide the services which Pert's wife is now providing, but providing her company's services are of a competitive standard and at a competitive price, then I have little concern. Of course, we cannot know this as outsiders.
Lane's piece is provocatively suggesting that this is a problem I'd suggest, which at the least raises awareness to it. Harder to get away with it when it is publicly known.
As for being located in 'General Discussion', I'd say it fits the description of General Discussion items. While most items in GD are football specific, some of them can diversify off this brief. I do not see much value in having several subsections of this site to be honest. Provided threads are labelled properly, I can pick and choose which I care to read easily enough.
Oh, it seems pretty clear from a cursory glance of the club website that Pert is in fact on the Club board as you'd expect him to be as CEO.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yeah, no 'PC' issues in my book. Totally fine for AFL clubs to develop apprpaches for inviting more women to apply for roles of significance within the organisations. What I'm bothered about is the potential conflict of interest in this particular case.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Arch@M32
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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| Arch@M32 wrote: | Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
This is certainly worth raising if this is becoming a trend. I would think members would have supported this outstanding new member of the board, however it would be nice to see members given that opportunity.
How many board members have been elected this way and how many by members?
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| watt price tully wrote: | | think positive wrote: | Wow three pages and I'm still not sure what's she's consulting on
What I've learnt is apparently collingwood have 10 female employees presumably apart from the shop staff, the ceos wife is now employed she has something to do with blackmores which apparently for some is a Nono although the most potent supplement they have us probably protein powder
As a women just let me say this
Who $£$%^%%$ cares? Just get your shit together and win a $£$%^%%$ premiership!im so over all this PC crap |
Who says they don't want a premiership as (badly) as the rest of us & what makes it "PC crap"? |
I agree, why should the 2 goals be mutually exclusive. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Albert Parker wrote: | Why is the addition of a credentialled female CEO 'PC crap'?
Or is the questions referencing Pert hiring his wife the PC crap?
I'm sure other firms could have supplied the contract to provide the services which Pert's wife is now providing, but providing her company's services are of a competitive standard and at a competitive price, then I have little concern. Of course, we cannot know this as outsiders.
Lane's piece is provocatively suggesting that this is a problem I'd suggest, which at the least raises awareness to it. Harder to get away with it when it is publicly known.
As for being located in 'General Discussion', I'd say it fits the description of General Discussion items. While most items in GD are football specific, some of them can diversify off this brief. I do not see much value in having several subsections of this site to be honest. Provided threads are labelled properly, I can pick and choose which I care to read easily enough.
Oh, it seems pretty clear from a cursory glance of the club website that Pert is in fact on the Club board as you'd expect him to be as CEO. |
I think you'll find that Pert would have a seat at the Board table but no voting rights. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| yin-YANG wrote: | | Arch@M32 wrote: | Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
This is certainly worth raising if this is becoming a trend. I would think members would have supported this outstanding new member of the board, however it would be nice to see members given that opportunity.
How many board members have been elected this way and how many by members? |
I think you'll find there is quite a cost to holding ad-hoc formal elections so I'm happy that the club structures those processes once a year at AGM when members have their say. |
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Arch@M32
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | | Arch@M32 wrote: | Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
This is certainly worth raising if this is becoming a trend. I would think members would have supported this outstanding new member of the board, however it would be nice to see members given that opportunity.
How many board members have been elected this way and how many by members? |
I think you'll find there is quite a cost to holding ad-hoc formal elections so I'm happy that the club structures those processes once a year at AGM when members have their say. |
No ad-hoc election was required. The seat could be left vacant until the AGM. I think the only reason the doc retired prior to the AGM was to enable this process of filling temporary vacancies to continue. I also would like to think that our new board member, who sounds like an outstanding addition to the board, would have been elected by the members at the AGM. |
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Arch@M32
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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| jackcass wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | | Arch@M32 wrote: | Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
This is certainly worth raising if this is becoming a trend. I would think members would have supported this outstanding new member of the board, however it would be nice to see members given that opportunity.
How many board members have been elected this way and how many by members? |
I think you'll find there is quite a cost to holding ad-hoc formal elections so I'm happy that the club structures those processes once a year at AGM when members have their say. |
No ad-hoc election was required. The seat could be left vacant until the AGM. I think the only reason the doc retired prior to the AGM was to enable this process of filling temporary vacancies to continue. I also would like to think that our new board member, who sounds like an outstanding addition to the board, would have been elected by the members at the AGM. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Arch@M32 wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | yin-YANG wrote: | | Arch@M32 wrote: | Four pages and nobody mentioned that they have a problem with another new board member not being voted in by members but instead filling a short term vacancy.
Remember elections? |
This is certainly worth raising if this is becoming a trend. I would think members would have supported this outstanding new member of the board, however it would be nice to see members given that opportunity.
How many board members have been elected this way and how many by members? |
I think you'll find there is quite a cost to holding ad-hoc formal elections so I'm happy that the club structures those processes once a year at AGM when members have their say. |
No ad-hoc election was required. The seat could be left vacant until the AGM. I think the only reason the doc retired prior to the AGM was to enable this process of filling temporary vacancies to continue. I also would like to think that our new board member, who sounds like an outstanding addition to the board, would have been elected by the members at the AGM. |
I was responding to the suggestion that her appointment should have been by election rather than a Board appointment. |
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