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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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| Post subject: Re: Training Monday 1st Feb 2016 |  |
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| MightyMagpie wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Good day to go and check out the players training at the Glasshouse, with an almost full contingent of players participating in match practice and an absence of the tennis crowd, meaning the cafe was reopening with free coffee (gold coin donation).
Players in rehabilitation: Pendlebury, Wills, Adams, Treloar, Broomhead, Scharenburg, Langdon, Cox
Players back training in the main group: Blair, Aish, Smith, Toovey, Ramsay, Sinclair, Macaffer
No shows: Before I start, the players split up into two teams, the whites versus the blacks. Because the white team had their numbers obscured, it's possible I missed some of the players out there. Having said that, I couldn't sight Sidebottom, Elliot, Howe, Maynard or Williams.
Players who stood out: De Goey, Moore, Fasolo, Reid
Some observations:
Witts and Grundy were having a fierce contest in the ruck. Neither you could say were winning the contest. Both are very evenly matched. It going to be a interesting dilemma how to play two pure ruckmen in the same team.
Jesse White appeared to be playing at the centre bounces. He has an incredible burst of speed at the contests which could be useful in the centre. Remains to be seen whether he has the stamina to play as a mid.
Reid is a CHB and that's where he should stay unless we lose every key forward in the team.
Fasolo is a key forward who could be used like a Eddie Betts or Milne type. He can jump, or run off opponents and kick multiple goals. At one point he told his teammates to clear out of the forward line to open space for him.
De Goey and Moore won't be playing in the VFL this year unless recuperating
from injury. The problem (a pleasant one) will be finding room in the forward line for Moore that has Cloke, Elliot, Fasolo, Swan and Howe. Likewise finding room for De Goey in the centre rotations that include Treloar, Pendlebury, Greenwood, Adams, Crisp and Sidebottom.
Aish was playing off half back and looks a fair way off the rest of the main group.
Sinclair has elite speed and runs both ends of the ground and is difficult to see why he wouldn't demand a spot in the team at half back.
Frost needs to eliminate his errors in training such as miskicking the ball or fumbling the mark, if he is to command a spot in the team ahead of Brown or Reid.
Marsh looks fantastic in training on the half back line. Question is where to play him when you have Brown, Reid and Frost ahead of him.
Of the first year players in match play, only Crocker stood out to me. He's not elite in anything, but he doesn't appear deficient in anything either. He runs to the right spots, is a good mark and a good kick and can kick goals. He looks like a second or third year player to me, whereas players like Goodyear and Golds appear to look like first year players to me.
Sier was playing as a half forward, so I gather if he makes it into the first side this year, it will be as a half forward and not as a mid. He has beautiful size to him and has lost a bit of weight, but has a long way to go to adjusting to playing against grown footballers. |
Thanks for the report. To answer your question about Marsh, you put him in place of Frost. Marsh basically replaced Frost in the back line late last year, and if training reports are anything to go by, there's no reason yet that Frost should command a spot ahead of him as a third tall with Brown and Reid already taking key roles. |
My view based on his AFL and VFL form (one VFL game I saw on TV and what I read following blogs) last year is that Marsh is a long way off AFL standard if we expect to be a top-4 or even top-8 team.
I think there is a bit of "new toy syndrome" about guys like Marsh and Maynard.
Champion Data (re Marsh): "A developing player that needs another year or two to find his feet.". That's exactly what I think - he's an AFL prospect rather than an AFL standard player right now (based off last year anyway).
I'm always happy for Collingwood guys to come out and play better than I expect though.
Frost did pretty well in 2015, but was very defensive (like Browny) and was sent back to the VFL to work on his offensive game out of defence (as I recall an interview snippet from him I think last year). Having both Brown and Frost in the backline does raise potential issues regarding lack of intercept marking and offensive drive out of the backline. |
I'm not sure you actually saw enough of him to make an informed opinion to be honest, especially at VFL level. Dave is right, he did dominate a lot of VFL games, dragged the team over the line in a couple, and showed outstanding leadership in the process. He thoroughly deserved his call up, more so than the few who debuted before him. Although he made some mistakes at AFL level, they were mistakes you'd expect from a young player adjusting to the pace of senior footy. Importantly, he did some really nice things too and didn't seem out of place at senior level. Once he gets used to senior footy and translates his VFL form to AFL, he'll be so far ahead of Frost it's not funny.
I'm not trying to bad mouth Frost, but he's a very limited player, and Marsh brings a hell of a lot more to the table than him, especially as a third tall capable of a bit of run and carry. |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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From VFL Stats for Marsh:
Round 1 - bye
Round 2 - 0 votes
Round 3 - 5 votes
Round 4 - 4 votes
Round 5 - 0 votes
Round 6 - bye
Round 7 - 0 votes
Round 8 - 5 votes
Round 9 - 0 votes
Round 10 - bye
Round 11 - 6 votes
Round 12 - 0 votes
Round 13 - 0 votes
Round 14 - 5 votes
Round 15 - 2 votes
Round 16 - 1 vote
Round 17 - DNP
Round 18 - DNP
Round 19 - DNP
Round 20 - DNP
QF - DNP
With a maximum 6 votes (I assume) on offer each game, I'm not sure 28 votes in 16 VFL games is a "domination", especially given Marsh is a "flashy" plaayer who would attract votes more easily.
Clearly he had a few good games and no doubt they are sticking in Pies supporters' minds.
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| ^^^ and if you followed the VFL board you'd appreciate just how poorly the VFL bests reflect the reality of performances. |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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| jackcass wrote: | | ^^^ and if you followed the VFL board you'd appreciate just how poorly the VFL bests reflect the reality of performances. |
I do follow the game blogs here and on the Club site.
I'm aware that the Club nominated bests are sometimes bizarre, but I assume that the VFL Sports Pulse ones that I've used above are at least vaguely independent.
The raw stats are there for everyone to see as well.
I'm trying to track down the VFL game I am thinking of - it looks like round 11, 5 or 2 unless Channel 7 broadcast a Pies VFL game after round 11. Maybe MagpieBat can help me.
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All We Can Be |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| MightyMagpie wrote: | From VFL Stats for Marsh:
Round 1 - bye
Round 2 - 0 votes
Round 3 - 5 votes
Round 4 - 4 votes
Round 5 - 0 votes
Round 6 - bye
Round 7 - 0 votes
Round 8 - 5 votes
Round 9 - 0 votes
Round 10 - bye
Round 11 - 6 votes
Round 12 - 0 votes
Round 13 - 0 votes
Round 14 - 5 votes
Round 15 - 2 votes
Round 16 - 1 vote
Round 17 - DNP
Round 18 - DNP
Round 19 - DNP
Round 20 - DNP
QF - DNP
With a maximum 6 votes (I assume) on offer each game, I'm not sure 28 votes in 16 VFL games is a "domination", especially given Marsh is a "flashy" plaayer who would attract votes more easily.
Clearly he had a few good games and no doubt they are sticking in Pies supporters' minds. |
Who did the Votes? and I can tell that you don't go to VFL Games
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I am Da Man |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Dave The Man wrote: | [quote="MightyMagpie"]From VFL Stats for Marsh:
Round 1 - bye
Round 2 - 0 votes
Round 3 - 5 votes
Round 4 - 4 votes
Round 5 - 0 votes
Round 6 - bye
Round 7 - 0 votes
Round 8 - 5 votes
Round 9 - 0 votes
Round 10 - bye
Round 11 - 6 votes
Round 12 - 0 votes
Round 13 - 0 votes
Round 14 - 5 votes
Round 15 - 2 votes
Round 16 - 1 vote
Round 17 - DNP
Round 18 - DNP
Round 19 - DNP
Round 20 - DNP
QF - DNP
With a maximum 6 votes (I assume) on offer each game, I'm not sure 28 votes in 16 VFL games is a "domination", especially given Marsh is a "flashy" plaayer who would attract votes more easily.
Clearly he had a few good games and no doubt they are sticking in Pies supporters' minds.[/quote]
Who did the Votes? and I can tell that you don't go to VFL Games |
Interesting observation. |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | MightyMagpie wrote: | From VFL Stats for Marsh:
Round 1 - bye
Round 2 - 0 votes
Round 3 - 5 votes
Round 4 - 4 votes
Round 5 - 0 votes
Round 6 - bye
Round 7 - 0 votes
Round 8 - 5 votes
Round 9 - 0 votes
Round 10 - bye
Round 11 - 6 votes
Round 12 - 0 votes
Round 13 - 0 votes
Round 14 - 5 votes
Round 15 - 2 votes
Round 16 - 1 vote
Round 17 - DNP
Round 18 - DNP
Round 19 - DNP
Round 20 - DNP
QF - DNP
With a maximum 6 votes (I assume) on offer each game, I'm not sure 28 votes in 16 VFL games is a "domination", especially given Marsh is a "flashy" plaayer who would attract votes more easily.
Clearly he had a few good games and no doubt they are sticking in Pies supporters' minds. |
Who did the Votes? and I can tell that you don't go to VFL Games |
I've answered this above already.
I love your work Dave and I don't intend to get into a slanging match with you. I'll just present my views (and what facts I can muster) from my disadvantaged viewpoint over here in WA.
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All We Can Be |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| MightyMagpie wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | ^^^ and if you followed the VFL board you'd appreciate just how poorly the VFL bests reflect the reality of performances. |
I do follow the game blogs here and on the Club site.
I'm aware that the Club nominated bests are sometimes bizarre, but I assume that the VFL Sports Pulse ones that I've used above are at least vaguely independent.
The raw stats are there for everyone to see as well.
I'm trying to track down the VFL game I am thinking of - it looks like round 11, 5 or 2 unless Channel 7 broadcast a Pies VFL game after round 11. Maybe MagpieBat can help me. |
Club nominated bests are the same as VFL sports pulse unless I'm mistaken and I don't have expectations that KPDs rack up huge possession numbers. Our last final a case in point, Marsh looking after Brown and we're winning, Marsh does his hammy, Brown gets off the leash, we lose the game. |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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The rehab group, if their absence is a function of this, is bigger and of higher quality than I would like. Pendles, Treloar, Adams.....
Thanks for the report
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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| jackcass wrote: | | MightyMagpie wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | ^^^ and if you followed the VFL board you'd appreciate just how poorly the VFL bests reflect the reality of performances. |
I do follow the game blogs here and on the Club site.
I'm aware that the Club nominated bests are sometimes bizarre, but I assume that the VFL Sports Pulse ones that I've used above are at least vaguely independent.
The raw stats are there for everyone to see as well.
I'm trying to track down the VFL game I am thinking of - it looks like round 11, 5 or 2 unless Channel 7 broadcast a Pies VFL game after round 11. Maybe MagpieBat can help me. |
Club nominated bests are the same as VFL sports pulse unless I'm mistaken and I don't have expectations that KPDs rack up huge possession numbers. Our last final a case in point, Marsh looking after Brown and we're winning, Marsh does his hammy, Brown gets off the leash, we lose the game. |
OK. No votes in the JJ Liston (http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=3794885) and not selected in the VFL team of the year with the following half back line: Jordan Russell, Michael Hartley, Ryan Pendlebury (a few familiar names there!). I can't do much more to support my view that Marsh didn't dominate the VFL in 2015 (albeit he may have had some good games).
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All We Can Be |
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perthmagpie 
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga
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I am going to ignore the stats and comment on what I saw live at around 8 VFL games last year. Marsh was one of our best players for the year. He was our best backman for the season. His intercept marking saved our bacon in last quarters a couple times. He improved steadily as the year went on. He became dependable and consistent. He had to play on lots of key position forwards taller than him. He rarely lowered his colours. He defended supremely and also attacked with blistering pace at times. He proved he is a natural leader. He used his voice loudly and has an air of authority in his game. He is still raw at times but is well on his way to becoming an orthodox players who has some X factor. He deserved his call up and is unproven at senior level. But this is no surprise due to inexperience. He looks very promising and has the tools to have a more valuable game than Frost.
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Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Sounds very handsome. |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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| MightyMagpie wrote: | | OK. No votes in the JJ Liston (http://www.sportingpulse.com/get_file.cgi?id=3794885) and not selected in the VFL team of the year with the following half back line: Jordan Russell, Michael Hartley, Ryan Pendlebury (a few familiar names there!). I can't do much more to support my view that Marsh didn't dominate the VFL in 2015 (albeit he may have had some good games). |
Just on this, the reason Marsh wasn't named in the VFL Team of the Year is because AFL-listed players aren't eligible to be selected in it... |
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