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If the allegations are true, was Bowie a rapist?
Yes, clearly. They were underage, end of story.
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
If he knew they were underage, yes, but otherwise no.
50%
 50%  [ 4 ]
No. This wasn't rape.
50%
 50%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 8

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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:44 pm
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To be fair though, that gap isn't as big as you think.

Women reach mental maturity in their early 20's, most men get to full mental maturity at around age 170. Razz Wink

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:14 pm
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They actually get there?
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:16 pm
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We've got further to travel
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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:15 pm
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The real elephant in the room is the effing Westboro baptist church. These wackers get off on disrupting soldiers funerals because shock horror there are gays in the military. There is nothing to be gained in going after a dead man for a victimless crime Crikey should know better than to give these thieves any oxygen.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:17 pm
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Try watching TV.
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:57 pm
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Who the hell reads Crikey? Shocked
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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:30 pm
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ronrat wrote:
The real elephant in the room is the effing Westboro baptist church. These wackers get off on disrupting soldiers funerals because shock horror there are gays in the military. There is nothing to be gained in going after a dead man for a victimless crime Crikey should know better than to give these thieves any oxygen.


Razer's point (right or wrong) is that some of the media/blogosphere critics going after Bowie are adopting 'Westboro'-style tactics.

Westboro isn't and never has been an elephant in any room. Try a tiny flea in the Sistine Chapel.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:02 pm
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Touched by an angel
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stui magpie 

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:20 pm
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^

Pretty sure that excuse has worn out for the Priests.

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:46 am
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Just to bump this old thread, I’ve been reading a really interesting new book by a US gender studies professor called Sex and Harm in the Age of Consent, which dwells on these issues. The author, Joseph Fischel, makes a really interesting argument: that we’ve been getting it wrong all along by using consent as our primary means of judging sexual ethics. His argument is that we should look at sex through the lens of autonomy, and that this should be informed by such things as exploitation and gender dynamics.

Among other things, his argument is a response to the fact that, as Wokko’s homie Milo Yiannopoulos argued to his own personal downfall some time back, gay teenagers often do seek out relationships with older men and can see these experiences as formative and beneficial – so the question becomes, how can we process this on an ethical level? It’s pretty controversial stuff, to say the least, but his argument is extraordinarily cautious and well-reasoned. You can see him talk about some related ideas here:

https://youtu.be/wvhYNJ6guhw

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:17 am
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David wrote:
Just to bump this old thread, I’ve been reading a really interesting new book by a US gender studies professor called Sex and Harm in the Age of Consent, which dwells on these issues. The author, Joseph Fischel, makes a really interesting argument: that we’ve been getting it wrong all along by using consent as our primary means of judging sexual ethics. His argument is that we should look at sex through the lens of autonomy, and that this should be informed by such things as exploitation and gender dynamics.

Among other things, his argument is a response to the fact that, as Wokko’s homie Milo Yiannopoulos argued to his own personal downfall some time back, gay teenagers often do seek out relationships with older men and can see these experiences as formative and beneficial – so the question becomes, how can we process this on an ethical level? It’s pretty controversial stuff, to say the least, but his argument is extraordinarily cautious and well-reasoned. You can see him talk about some related ideas here:

https://youtu.be/wvhYNJ6guhw


Can you give us a summary of the argument ? After ten minutes of watching his jargon-soaked, internally referential and ideology-laden presentation (so far so gender-studies) , I looked at the 60 minutes still to go with distaste, and declared TLDW.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:26 am
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^ Basically, he looks at the weird corners of aberrant sexuality – stuff like necrophilia, cannibalism, bestiality and the like as a way of exploring the usefulness of consent as an ethical model. He races through a lot of this stuff, but I thought one of the more illuminating parts of his talk was when he talked about animals: if the idea of animal consent is absurd, how else might we look at the ethics of bestiality? He provides four models, one of which is Peter Singer’s focus on harm, and others of which are rights (perhaps in the Kantian sense), pleasure and maximum capability. I think it’d be interesting to apply those models to humans, too (not to reject consent, but to complicate it).

His point in bringing up cannibalism is that consent is not enough to guarantee that a person is not going to be harmed; he also (cautiously) extends his critique to certain BDSM practices, a community in which consent is generally used as the first (and only) means of judging the ethical soundness of an act. He later goes onto a lengthy comparison with American football, a sport that, despite all its protective gear, causes a huge amount of permanent head injuries (I’m not sure whether this is a bigger problem there than it is here in the AFL). His question there is whether the consent of participating players is enough to make American football ethically legitimate. What he’s doing here, basically, is trying to look at harm (and benefit) in sex as being about something other than freedom of choice – I think that’s a fascinating and thought-provoking exploration. He talks a little about age of consent laws at 17:30.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:36 am
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^ ok, thanks. That does help explain it in a way that I can understand (ie that I can be bothered understanding). It seems a fair intellectual point, but I think necrophilia and bestilaity are really different classes of act compared to sex between living human beings, and therefore the ethical framework is necessarily different. In other words, I don’t think the bar on necrophilia tells us anything meaningful about what makes ordinary sexual acts ethical or otherwise, so I am not sure the inference is valid.
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:27 am
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When you start being "flexible" about things like the age of consent you start down a slippery slope. 15 is old enough becomes 14 is old enough becomes 13 is old enough becomes 12 is old enough becomes 11 is old enough becomes ....

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/girl-11-consented-to-sex-with-man-28-who-lured-her-from-a-park-french-prosecutors-declare/news-story/b2093ce36c9cac0dff795e9305a197bf
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:21 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
^ ok, thanks. That does help explain it in a way that I can understand (ie that I can be bothered understanding). It seems a fair intellectual point, but I think necrophilia and bestilaity are really different classes of act compared to sex between living human beings, and therefore the ethical framework is necessarily different. In other words, I don’t think the bar on necrophilia tells us anything meaningful about what makes ordinary sexual acts ethical or otherwise, so I am not sure the inference is valid.


necrophilia is weird, it would be like having sex with my ex wife so I really don't understand the attraction.

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