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Gun laws in USA??

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:30 am
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K wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^ the US shows what happens to a society with too many lawyers.

I think they have "too many" lawyers because they have "not enough" regulation, a result of their deep distrust of government. Matters that in UK-influenced societies are regulated by the government are often a free-for-all in the US, with only the threat of litigation preventing complete anarchy.


I work with the US and with Europe and the UK and Asia and believe me, the US has plenty of regulation, at both state and Federal level. The cost of dealing with civil suits, both reasonable and vexatious, rests on top of this. It is one reason why the US has been steadily falling in the World Bank’s “ease of doing business” tables over the last 20 years. On regulation-related items in that index, it is near the lower end of most developed economies. The only reasons it remains in the top ten are “gaining credit” and “resolving insolvency“. See the World bank “ease of doing business rankings” website for details.

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Pies4shaw 

"Phil had more talent in his little finger than both Abletts combined displayed in their entire careers"


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:52 am
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stui magpie wrote:
What do you mean "almost all dead"?

There's more people identifying as Aboriginal now than ever before.

"Surely your Honour is teasing me?"
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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:50 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
What do you mean "almost all dead"?

There's more people identifying as Aboriginal now than ever before.

"Surely your Honour is teasing me?"


No tease at all councillor

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/MediaRealesesByCatalogue/02D50FAA9987D6B7CA25814800087E03?OpenDocument

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/68AE74ED632E17A6CA2573D200110075?opendocument

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:42 pm
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https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/donald-trump-suggests-arming-teachers-to-prevent-school-massacres-20180222-p4z17v.html

The mentality of the NRA who own Trump. Arm teachers. Rolling Eyes
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:11 pm
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NRA own Trump? You do realise he's a self made Billionaire?
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Wokko Pisces

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:38 pm
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:36 pm
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So, how rare are mass shootings in the US? Based on Mother Jones research, 722 people were killed and 1,177 people were killed in 91 mass shootings between 1982-2017.

That's an average of 2.53 incidents and 20 fatalities per year over that 35 year period. Based on CDC statistics for 1999-2014 (accounting for 345 mass shooting fatalities), the following causes of death are more frequent:

• Falling out of bed (10,386 deaths);
• “Accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed” (10,206);
• "Ag machinery” (4,183);
• “Constipation” (2,167);
• "Crushed or stuck" (1,842);
• “Fall from tree” (1,413);
• “Fall involving ice-skates, skis, roller-skates or skateboards” (1,139)
• “Contact with powered lawnmower” (951).

Americans are anywhere between three times and thirty times as likely to be killed by things on this list, yet no one is calling for bans.

When we conduct a basic calculation of the frequency of mass shooters in the United States, the results are striking. There are about 300 million firearms in the U.S., 75 million gun owners, and about 3-5 deadly mass shooters each year. That means 0.000006% of gun owners each year are mass shooters.

In addition, FBI Crime Statistics show that all rifles combined — “assault rifles,” hunting rifles, all rifles — account for 250 firearms homicides per year. That is fewer than 2% of all homicides each year. By comparison, handguns account for nine times as many murders as all other firearms combined.

Let’s also consider that more than twice as many people are murdered by people with their hands and feet than by rifles or shotguns each year, according to FBI Crime Statistics. Blunt objects kill far more than either, as well. Knives kill over six times as many people as either rifles or shotguns. Yet, no one is proposing a ban on hammers or knives.

When it comes to setting national policy, it is imperative that we understand the issue that we are collectively attempting to address and rationally implement measures to prevent crises. It is no different for mass shootings.

It has often been claimed the U.S. leads the world in mass shootings. It is typical for a gun control proponent to point to European gun-control-heavy nations as exemplars of "common sense" policies. Alas, this is statistically false.

Mass shootings in the US must be corrected for population size before one can do an international comparison. When such basic statistical calculations are made, the US drops from the nation with the ‘most mass shootings in the world’ to twelfth.

Furthermore, the U.S. is eleventh in the world in terms of death rate from mass shootings per year. (Bear in mind European nations tend to be heavily regulated for private firearms ownership).

It is helpful to know how uncommon mass shootings tend to be, even as the U.S. media make up statistics to make them appear more common than they actually are. It is also productive to know where mass shootings tend to take place: Gun-free zones.

As gun expert John Lott Jr. has pointed out: “Since at least 1950, all but two public mass shootings in America have taken place where general citizens are banned from carrying guns.”

Instead of seeking to ban inanimate objects, we should be looking at violent and mentally ill individuals who are at risk of committing such heinous acts, instead of limiting the rights of law-abiding citizens nationwide, who are extremely unlikely to carry out such atrocities.

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stui magpie 

suge min pikk


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:31 pm
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Look, Wokko, I'm not an hysterical anti gun nut. I used to own a small arsenal and am very familiar with guns. (Dad gave me an ex WWII M1 carbine for my 16th birthday) I've travelled in the US and did a mental doubletake every time I saw a sign on an establishment that said "no guns allowed" as Texas gun laws are quite lax.

However, I'm not going to argue about your stats above, because I don't care.

If 2000 people died each year of electrocution trying to f^ck their toaster, I don't care. if, in the future, thousands of people get killed each year because they walked into traffic staring at their phone instead of watching where they were going, I don't care.

When a bunch of innocent people going about their daily business at school, or work, or at a concert, are able to be slaughtered by some imbetard simply because there are tools that allow them to do it easily, with no special knowledge or skill required, I care.

You do not need a semi auto .223 rifle for self defence. %$^£$%^&%%, any responsible human wouldn't even think it.

A Shotgun or handgun is all you need to defend your home without killing your neighbours.

Likewise, any hunter who actually has any pride in being a hunter doesn't need a semi auto rifle. I'd take an old Lee enfield or P14 .303, or a lever action 30.06 as a better hunting rifle.

Someone needs to have the balls to set in motion what's needed to either repeal or modify the constitution to insert some common sense. Let the people vote.

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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:14 pm
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Arming teachers with concealed weapons. If everyone knows they have them why conceal them?

Ok required.

Gun safe for every room. Or have a large one in a staff room and teachers will have to carry.
Advanced training.
Paid armourers to repair and test.
Considerable training and trauma to young kids about what to do when Miss pulls out a gun.
Security guards 24-7 for every school to stop burglaries trying to abtain weapons by those banned from having them.
Purchase of said weapons and ammunition
Ammunition technicians to check condition of bullets.
Refresher training at least annually

Now in very small communities the cost of the guards could be more than the cost of the teachers. This happened after 9-11. Key installations like nuclear power plants had situations where additional police had to be hired to guard them Towns with 3 cops went to 5 where 2 spent 12 hour shifts listening to the radio and eating donuts. Many towns of only 200 people and one assumes the schools were fairly small. I was assessing this as part of my job at Defence when looking at acquisitions and product reviews.

There will be be some religious backlash from say the Amish who will refuse to carry guns. They will have to hire armed guards for every classroom or risk being hit with lawsuits for religious freedom constitutional rights. And they will lose. Also some disabled teachers will be physically incapable of using a weapon. They going to sack them. LawyersRus.

Any nutter intending to commit no good will know they will be facing a threat so will get 2 kills in before the teacher gets to the safe. It is likely the teacher will be the first victim. Hostage taking will become the norm.

Do they arm school bus drivers (shut up kids or the bunny gets it). school crossing supervisors, attendants at school sporting events like College football games which are huge.

How does arming a teacher with a handgun stop a sniper(s) operating from outside the school rooms.

Do they have metal detectors (and paper detectors now) in every entrance to every school. These things are not cheap and require constant monitoring. A school the size of about a 1000 will have hundreds of visitors a day including delivery drivers, parents, medical services, education administrators, Alumni, trades people, sales people, police. Assuming every student and teacher will be scanned the school will have to open an hour earlier (more cost) and visitors hours restricted. Who patrols the cafeteria?

Throwaway lines from Trumps and his mates needs to be met with some rational analysis. Some smart institute ought to cost all this and present, as fact, this to the USA public. Folks your tax bill will go up 3000 per head, your freedoms around schools WILL be infringed and your religious freedoms may also be infringed. Let the friggin NRA argue with logic, something they have yet to face. To pay for all this we propose a 1000 dollar tax be placed on every asault rifle and 10 dollars a bullet. Or we tax petrol, cigarettes and liquor. We also suggest rationalisation small schools to reduce this hideous cost. Farmers can still use shotguns and single shot weapons for vermin control and injured animal shooting.

Fox will go nuts, Trump will dismiss it, the NRA will refute. The US public though may say otherwise. Umm. 12000 dollars a year to pay for this bullshit, I don\t have a gun and our holidays, college funds, and even health care may have to go. Not me Donny

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:25 pm
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Wokko wrote:
NRA own Trump? You do realise he's a self made Billionaire?


No Wokko, no... they don't.

They try every single piece of crap they can to dismiss and belittle the man.
They keep trying .... and crying .... and wishing but they got nothing.

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Skids Cancer



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 ... aka Assassin member #175

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:07 pm
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Wokko wrote:
So, how rare are mass shootings in the US? Based on Mother Jones research, 722 people were killed and 1,177 people were killed in 91 mass shootings between 1982-2017.

That's an average of 2.53 incidents and 20 fatalities per year over that 35 year period. Based on CDC statistics for 1999-2014 (accounting for 345 mass shooting fatalities), the following causes of death are more frequent:

• Falling out of bed (10,386 deaths);
• “Accidental suffocation and strangulation in bed” (10,206);
• "Ag machinery” (4,183);
• “Constipation” (2,167);
• "Crushed or stuck" (1,842);
• “Fall from tree” (1,413);
• “Fall involving ice-skates, skis, roller-skates or skateboards” (1,139)
• “Contact with powered lawnmower” (951).

Americans are anywhere between three times and thirty times as likely to be killed by things on this list, yet no one is calling for bans.

When we conduct a basic calculation of the frequency of mass shooters in the United States, the results are striking. There are about 300 million firearms in the U.S., 75 million gun owners, and about 3-5 deadly mass shooters each year. That means 0.000006% of gun owners each year are mass shooters.

In addition, FBI Crime Statistics show that all rifles combined — “assault rifles,” hunting rifles, all rifles — account for 250 firearms homicides per year. That is fewer than 2% of all homicides each year. By comparison, handguns account for nine times as many murders as all other firearms combined.

Let’s also consider that more than twice as many people are murdered by people with their hands and feet than by rifles or shotguns each year, according to FBI Crime Statistics. Blunt objects kill far more than either, as well. Knives kill over six times as many people as either rifles or shotguns. Yet, no one is proposing a ban on hammers or knives.

When it comes to setting national policy, it is imperative that we understand the issue that we are collectively attempting to address and rationally implement measures to prevent crises. It is no different for mass shootings.

It has often been claimed the U.S. leads the world in mass shootings. It is typical for a gun control proponent to point to European gun-control-heavy nations as exemplars of "common sense" policies. Alas, this is statistically false.

Mass shootings in the US must be corrected for population size before one can do an international comparison. When such basic statistical calculations are made, the US drops from the nation with the ‘most mass shootings in the world’ to twelfth.

Furthermore, the U.S. is eleventh in the world in terms of death rate from mass shootings per year. (Bear in mind European nations tend to be heavily regulated for private firearms ownership).

It is helpful to know how uncommon mass shootings tend to be, even as the U.S. media make up statistics to make them appear more common than they actually are. It is also productive to know where mass shootings tend to take place: Gun-free zones.

As gun expert John Lott Jr. has pointed out: “Since at least 1950, all but two public mass shootings in America have taken place where general citizens are banned from carrying guns.”

Instead of seeking to ban inanimate objects, we should be looking at violent and mentally ill individuals who are at risk of committing such heinous acts, instead of limiting the rights of law-abiding citizens nationwide, who are extremely unlikely to carry out such atrocities.


The ranting loonies don't even read, let alone understand what you're conveying here Wokko.... their heads are that far up their arses that, they are lost in a sea of intestinal defilement.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:30 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Look, Wokko, I'm not an hysterical anti gun nut. I used to own a small arsenal and am very familiar with guns. (Dad gave me an ex WWII M1 carbine for my 16th birthday) I've travelled in the US and did a mental doubletake every time I saw a sign on an establishment that said "no guns allowed" as Texas gun laws are quite lax.

However, I'm not going to argue about your stats above, because I don't care.

If 2000 people died each year of electrocution trying to f^ck their toaster, I don't care. if, in the future, thousands of people get killed each year because they walked into traffic staring at their phone instead of watching where they were going, I don't care.

When a bunch of innocent people going about their daily business at school, or work, or at a concert, are able to be slaughtered by some imbetard simply because there are tools that allow them to do it easily, with no special knowledge or skill required, I care.

You do not need a semi auto .223 rifle for self defence. %$^£$%^&%%, any responsible human wouldn't even think it.

A Shotgun or handgun is all you need to defend your home without killing your neighbours.

Likewise, any hunter who actually has any pride in being a hunter doesn't need a semi auto rifle. I'd take an old Lee enfield or P14 .303, or a lever action 30.06 as a better hunting rifle.

Someone needs to have the balls to set in motion what's needed to either repeal or modify the constitution to insert some common sense. Let the people vote.


common sense is probably expecting too much,
great post

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Oxford, England

PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:48 pm
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think positive wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
Look, Wokko, I'm not an hysterical anti gun nut. I used to own a small arsenal and am very familiar with guns. (Dad gave me an ex WWII M1 carbine for my 16th birthday) I've travelled in the US and did a mental doubletake every time I saw a sign on an establishment that said "no guns allowed" as Texas gun laws are quite lax.

However, I'm not going to argue about your stats above, because I don't care.

If 2000 people died each year of electrocution trying to f^ck their toaster, I don't care. if, in the future, thousands of people get killed each year because they walked into traffic staring at their phone instead of watching where they were going, I don't care.

When a bunch of innocent people going about their daily business at school, or work, or at a concert, are able to be slaughtered by some imbetard simply because there are tools that allow them to do it easily, with no special knowledge or skill required, I care.

You do not need a semi auto .223 rifle for self defence. %$^£$%^&%%, any responsible human wouldn't even think it.

A Shotgun or handgun is all you need to defend your home without killing your neighbours.

Likewise, any hunter who actually has any pride in being a hunter doesn't need a semi auto rifle. I'd take an old Lee enfield or P14 .303, or a lever action 30.06 as a better hunting rifle.

Someone needs to have the balls to set in motion what's needed to either repeal or modify the constitution to insert some common sense. Let the people vote.


common sense is probably expecting too much,
great post


Yep, agreed. Making it easy for the deranged to murder innocents on a large scale does not advance liberty. The protection of the republic will repose in lawful institutions, not in an armed militia. The latter can only bring down chaos.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:28 am
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Hilarious that anyone with a sound mind thinks more people with guns makes everyone safer. Only in America. The NRA are correct, the media love mass shootings but the NRA love mass shootings as well as they see an increase in gun sales. Nothing will change over there, already the rhetoric is changing. Now the right wing nutters are saying the school kids protesting are paid actors. That's the way they roll.
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swoop42 Virgo

The Flash


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 22

PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:55 am
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stui magpie wrote:
Look, Wokko, I'm not an hysterical anti gun nut. I used to own a small arsenal and am very familiar with guns. (Dad gave me an ex WWII M1 carbine for my 16th birthday) I've travelled in the US and did a mental doubletake every time I saw a sign on an establishment that said "no guns allowed" as Texas gun laws are quite lax.

However, I'm not going to argue about your stats above, because I don't care.

If 2000 people died each year of electrocution trying to f^ck their toaster, I don't care. if, in the future, thousands of people get killed each year because they walked into traffic staring at their phone instead of watching where they were going, I don't care.

When a bunch of innocent people going about their daily business at school, or work, or at a concert, are able to be slaughtered by some imbetard simply because there are tools that allow them to do it easily, with no special knowledge or skill required, I care.

You do not need a semi auto .223 rifle for self defence. %$^£$%^&%%, any responsible human wouldn't even think it.

A Shotgun or handgun is all you need to defend your home without killing your neighbours.

Likewise, any hunter who actually has any pride in being a hunter doesn't need a semi auto rifle. I'd take an old Lee enfield or P14 .303, or a lever action 30.06 as a better hunting rifle.

Someone needs to have the balls to set in motion what's needed to either repeal or modify the constitution to insert some common sense. Let the people vote.


Stands and applauds.

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