Gun laws in USA??
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Statistically, whites make up 73.3% of the US population and, according to the page you refer to, are responsible for 59 mass shootings. Blacks make up 12.6% of the US population and are responsible for 17 mass shootings. Mathematics isn't my strong suit but this suggests that blacks are over-represented in mass shootings and, as Wokko's graphic demonstrates, are vastly over-represented in general homicides.
As such, since you and WPT seem obsessed with taking guns away from particular racial groups why aren't you advocating that they be taken away from black people? |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Honestly I think race is a bit of a red herring here. It makes sense that gun crime might be more common among people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. You can maybe investigate the role that men and masculinity play (and have always played) in violence, but otherwise the most meaningful common factor is easy access to deadly weaponry.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: |
Statistically, whites make up 73.3% of the US population and, according to the page you refer to, are responsible for 59 mass shootings. Blacks make up 12.6% of the US population and are responsible for 17 mass shootings. Mathematics isn't my strong suit but this suggests that blacks are over-represented in mass shootings and, as Wokko's graphic demonstrates, are vastly over-represented in general homicides.
As such, since you and WPT seem obsessed with taking guns away from particular racial groups why aren't you advocating that they be taken away from black people? |
I want guns taking from everybody.
As an aside, Im glad you observe that maths is not your strong suit. It plainly isnt. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| thesoretoothsayer wrote: |
Statistically, ......
As such, since you and WPT seem obsessed with taking guns away from particular racial groups why aren't you advocating that they be taken away from black people? |
It aint gunna happen in the US. However I'll setttle for taking guns away from men. Good idea.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I thought so too. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| watt price tully wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1059299507538665472?s=19
Uh huh |
Its not hard to understand for some.
I dont think the 440 real people killed in Chicago just this year would see themselves as a misdirection as WPF will have you beleive when talking about Gun violence in a gun violence topic discussion. These were women, blacks, Jews......
Im sure not too many of the perpetrators liked their victims.
Talking about misdirection, WPF will continually compare the right of centre Americans with the far right and mass murders. I struggle to understand an argument that constantly sees extremism in one side of the political spectrum yet cant, or wont admit the extremism sits on both sides and is condemned by both sides. Will argue the leader of one political party's constant rhetoric is cause for violence yet when faced with numerous examples of rhetoric from the other side and incidents of violence........crickets.
What isnt a surprise though is the need to attack the the other side personally when the argument isn't working out how you thought it would. Fairly common place on the left. |
Good lord, so many errors and so little time:
1. WPF? Which 7 year old did you steal that from?
2. Have I once said that Trump caused the racist murders by a white right wing male? No. Misattribution again.
3. Not once have I stated that there aren't extemists on the left a false claim by you indeed it's a lie. Straw man argument, false claim, misrepresentation and a porky pie by you. You just thought that would be good to make up and throw in. Sorry you've been caught out.
4. You continue to use killings in Chicago per se and compare this with murderous misogyny and racism perpetrated by nutter white wing males. There is no comparison to my specific question:
Why is it that murderous, misogynist and racist white right wing nutter males are attracted to the right wing? To be clear I am asking why it is that these types area attracted to right wing ways of seeing the world.
Now I'm not so binary as to say that there are not racists and misogynists on the left but they don't go into synagogues and shoot people, they don't go into churches and shoot people dead and they don't kill gays in discos or shoot women in a yoga studio as far as I know: This seems to be the exclusive domain of right wing, white, racist, mysogynist and homophpobic nutter males who obviously are attracted to the right. In the words of professor Julius Sumner Miller "why is it so"
Please refrain from misattribution, misrepresentation and misdirection. |
You are the embodiment of Misattribution, misrepresetation and misdirection. And again, the personal attack. Pathetic. Condescending and pathetic.
1. Yes - you explicitly blamed Trump for a synagogues shooting. I dont care what language you think you used - you blamed him. You said its a no-brainer just to what degree to apportion the blame.
2. Yes you haven't stated there are not extremists on the left - what Ive said was you haven't acknowledged that they are there at all when you've constantly attacked the right. Not the far right...the right of centre and Trump who is not far rigt.
3. I use Chicago consistently for a reason that I knew your narrow thinking wouldn't pick up on for a few reasons. Chicago murders and gun violence is one of the worst citys in the country and got worse under Obama, is Democrat run and has purportedly the toughest gun laws in the US. Hasn't much helped because the criminals have all the guns !
Im not sure every Nutter is attracted to extreme right wing but extreme right wing are all nutters. Antifa are full of nutters and they are left. Guarantee nobody in a gang in Chicago is voting republican.
In a topic on gun violence, you go straight to mass shooting to suit your racist argument on politics. One murder at a time even when there are 440 of them in less than a year that you dont want to talk about in a US gun topic discussion.
105 "mass or spree shootings" since 1982 killing 860 people. (not two years of shooting deaths in what city do you think?)
60 committed by white males
45 completed by other races
89 - had mental health issues. Not something we seem to worry about or assign blame to.
4 only committed by females. So why do you call for "white" males to be banned and not all males ?
Lets have a look at just some attacks by the left that I could be bothered looking up.
Ft.Hood shooter Nidal Hasan - Democrat, and muslim
Adam Lanza - Liberal, hated Christians
Columbine High School freaks - too young to vote but came from very liberal families
Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-Hui Cho - liberal freak
Virginia Tech decapitater - liberal
Colorado Theater shooter James Holmes - liberal
Live on air Roanoke VA TV station shooter Vester Lee Flanagan - liberal
Navy shipyard shooter Aaron Alexis - liberal
Arizona Gabby Giffords shooter Jared Loughner - Liberal, hated Bush
The DC snipers back in 2003 - Liberals
Chattanooga TN Marine Recruiting center shooter - Muslim democrat
Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) - Leftist
Some other examples of the violent left?...
Lee Harvy Oswald (JFK) - Marxist (hard core lefty)
John Hinkley (Reagan) - Democrat
John Wilkes Booth (Lincoln) - Democrat
Lynette 'squeaky' Fromme (Gerd Ford attempt) - Liberal
Sir Han Sir Han (RFK) - Liberal
Bill Ayers - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Bernadine Dohrn - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Occupy Wall Street - over 8,000 arrests, 3 murders, 2 arson, 10 plus reported rapes - a hardcore leftist movement
KKK- was spawn from democrats
Eradication of Jews 1940's (holocaust) - Hitler a member of the National Socialist Workers Party aka a hardcore leftist.
Planned parenthood - contentious I know but do some research on Margaret Sanger founder. I looked this up after Cadice Owens pointed it out.
Slavery - Democrats were proponents.
What about voting record?
13th amendment - abolish slavery.
%100 Republican support
%23 Dem support - actually had a good year for them
14th amendment - citizenship to freed slaves and now used by illegals.
%100 Republican support
%0 Dem support
15th amendment - right to vote for all
%100 repuplican support
%0 Dem support
Yet with all that I dont lay blame on the left for these nutters. Left of centre as opposed to far left I can find common ground. Conservatives usually can.
Please refrain from miss-attribution, misrepresentation and misdirection.
( just seemed ok to end with that as I guess it means what, Im right and your not ?)
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
Last edited by MJ23 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I hear the metallic rasping of the bottom of the barrel, there. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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dbl
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan
Last edited by MJ23 on Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| To me too. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| MJ23 wrote: | You are the embodiment of Misattribution, misrepresetation and misdirection. And again, the personal attack. Pathetic. Condescending and pathetic.
1. Yes - you explicitly blamed Trump for a synagogues shooting. I dont care what language you think you used - you blamed him.
2. Yes you haven't stated there are not extremists on the left - what Ive said was you haven't acknowledged that they are ther at all when you constantly attacked the right. Not the far right...the right of centre and Trump.
3. I use Chicago consistently for a reason that I knew your narrow thinking wouldn't pick up on for a few reasons. Chicago murders and gun violence is one of the worst citys in the country and got worse under Obama, is Democrat run and has purportedly the toughest gun laws in the US. Hasn't much helped because the criminals have all the guns !
Im not sure every Nutter is attracted to extreme right wing but extreme right wing are all nutters. Antifa are full of nutters and they are left. Guarantee nobody in a gang in Chicago is voting republican.
In a topic on gun violence, you go straight to mass shooting to suit your racist argument on politics. One murder at a time even when there are 440 of them in less than a year that you dont want to talk about in a US gun topic discussion.
105 "mass or spree shootings" since 1982 killing 860 people. (not two years of shooting deaths in what city do you think?)
60 committed by white males
45 completed by other races
89 - had mental health issues. Not something we seem to worry about or assign blame to.
4 only committed by females.
Lets have a look at just some attacks by the left that I could be bothered looking up.
Ft.Hood shooter Nidal Hasan - Democrat, and muslim
Adam Lanza - Liberal, hated Christians
Columbine High School freaks - too young to vote but came from very liberal families
Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-Hui Cho - liberal freak
Virginia Tech decapitater - liberal
Colorado Theater shooter James Holmes - liberal
Live on air Roanoke VA TV station shooter Vester Lee Flanagan - liberal
Navy shipyard shooter Aaron Alexis - liberal
Arizona Gabby Giffords shooter Jared Loughner - Liberal, hated Bush
The DC snipers back in 2003 - Liberals
Chattanooga TN Marine Recruiting center shooter - Muslim democrat
Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) - Leftist
Some other examples of the violent left?...
Lee Harvy Oswald (JFK) - Marxist (hard core lefty)
John Hinkley (Reagan) - Democrat
John Wilkes Booth (Lincoln) - Democrat
Lynette 'squeaky' Fromme (Gerd Ford attempt) - Liberal
Sir Han Sir Han (RFK) - Liberal
Bill Ayers - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Bernadine Dohrn - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Occupy Wall Street - over 8,000 arrests, 3 murders, 2 arson, 10 plus reported rapes - a hardcore leftist movement
KKK- was spawn from democrats
Eradication of Jews 1940's (holocaust) - Hitler a member of the National Socialist Workers Party aka a hardcore leftist.
Planned parenthood - contentious I know but do some research on Margaret Sanger founder. I looked this up after Cadice Owens pointed it out.
Slavery - Democrats were proponents.
What about voting record?
13th amendment - abolish slavery.
%100 Republican support
%23 Dem support - actually had a good year for them
14th amendment - citizenship to freed slaves and now used by illegals.
%100 Republican support
%0 Dem support
15th amendment - right to vote for all
%100 repuplican support
%0 Dem support
Yet with all that I dont lay blame on the left for these nutters. Left of centre as opposed to far left I can find common ground. Conservatives usually can.
Please refrain from miss-attribution, misrepresentation and misdirection.
( just seemed ok to end with that as I guess it means what, Im right and your not ?) |
Theres a lot of nonsense in the post above. Firstly, practically no-one would call pre-WW1 Democrats left. Even now theyre mostly a party of the centre/centre-right, but back before Franklin Roosevelt they were the less progressive party in many respects, and had a mortgage on the far-right vote in the US south (whereas the Republicans were the quintessentially liberal party that had emerged from the tradition of the British Whigs). Why the parties switched positions on so many issues is complex and very interesting from an historical perspective, but its something you need to have a basic grasp of if youre going to talk about the history of US party politics.
Secondly, there must be no more tired or ridiculous claim than that Hitler was far-left. The National Socialists were always a party of the far right that had a minority of members (led by Ernst Rhm) with a mixture of socialist and far-right views; Hitler himself was of a more purely right-wing ideological bent and fought against these tendencies in the party, eventually purging Rhms faction completely during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Long before gaining power, Hitler had aligned himself with big-business and socially conservative interests; in government and before, he was a fascist and led a fascist party.
Thirdly, youre seriously going to assign the alienated teenage Columbine shooters to the liberal camp because of their parents views? By that logic, Im a right-wing Christian. Pleased to meet you.
These howlers aside, your point is not fundamentally incorrect: of course there have been left-wing terrorists and individual criminals. And many perhaps the vast majority of crimes are not really politically motivated at all. But what does seem to be a specific (and growing) problem in the US right now is radical right-wing political violence being carried out against minority targets, seemingly emboldened by a radical right-wing administration and the unseemly groups that it has fostered and promoted. There is really no counterpart for that specific phenomenon within the American left.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| MJ23 wrote: | | David wrote: | | Honestly I think race is a bit of a red herring here. It makes sense that gun crime might be more common among people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. You can maybe investigate the role that men and masculinity play (and have always played) in violence, but otherwise the most meaningful common factor is easy access to deadly weaponry. |
Agree with this except mental health is also a meaningful factor.
My first choice would be to remove every single gun from the US - it just aint ever going to happen for so many reasons. There are things that can be done but ultimately BOTH parties need to align and its a misnomer that its a republican problem.
Mental health though, well that can be worked on and I think Trump could be challenged on this. |
This is the go-to NRA/Republican talking point, but ultimately it seems like a bit of a distraction. Yes, mental health is a huge social problem and deserves much better in terms of social programs and spending than what the current (Republican!) administration is willing to offer. But theres no silver bullet (so to speak) to solve that, and its hardly even a decisive factor in what were talking about: after all, mental health is as big a problem here in Australia as it is in America, and where is our comparable gun violence problem?
Even if youre resigned to the fact that America is never going to give up its guns and want a next-best option, youre left with things like background checks, regulation of gun ownership and removal of certain military-grade guns from the market. Better mental-health funding is a great and much-needed initiative, but as a way to solve the US gun problem its a long way down the list of pragmatic remedies.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| David wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | You are the embodiment of Misattribution, misrepresetation and misdirection. And again, the personal attack. Pathetic. Condescending and pathetic.
1. Yes - you explicitly blamed Trump for a synagogues shooting. I dont care what language you think you used - you blamed him.
2. Yes you haven't stated there are not extremists on the left - what Ive said was you haven't acknowledged that they are ther at all when you constantly attacked the right. Not the far right...the right of centre and Trump.
3. I use Chicago consistently for a reason that I knew your narrow thinking wouldn't pick up on for a few reasons. Chicago murders and gun violence is one of the worst citys in the country and got worse under Obama, is Democrat run and has purportedly the toughest gun laws in the US. Hasn't much helped because the criminals have all the guns !
Im not sure every Nutter is attracted to extreme right wing but extreme right wing are all nutters. Antifa are full of nutters and they are left. Guarantee nobody in a gang in Chicago is voting republican.
In a topic on gun violence, you go straight to mass shooting to suit your racist argument on politics. One murder at a time even when there are 440 of them in less than a year that you dont want to talk about in a US gun topic discussion.
105 "mass or spree shootings" since 1982 killing 860 people. (not two years of shooting deaths in what city do you think?)
60 committed by white males
45 completed by other races
89 - had mental health issues. Not something we seem to worry about or assign blame to.
4 only committed by females.
Lets have a look at just some attacks by the left that I could be bothered looking up.
Ft.Hood shooter Nidal Hasan - Democrat, and muslim
Adam Lanza - Liberal, hated Christians
Columbine High School freaks - too young to vote but came from very liberal families
Virginia Tech shooter, Seung-Hui Cho - liberal freak
Virginia Tech decapitater - liberal
Colorado Theater shooter James Holmes - liberal
Live on air Roanoke VA TV station shooter Vester Lee Flanagan - liberal
Navy shipyard shooter Aaron Alexis - liberal
Arizona Gabby Giffords shooter Jared Loughner - Liberal, hated Bush
The DC snipers back in 2003 - Liberals
Chattanooga TN Marine Recruiting center shooter - Muslim democrat
Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) - Leftist
Some other examples of the violent left?...
Lee Harvy Oswald (JFK) - Marxist (hard core lefty)
John Hinkley (Reagan) - Democrat
John Wilkes Booth (Lincoln) - Democrat
Lynette 'squeaky' Fromme (Gerd Ford attempt) - Liberal
Sir Han Sir Han (RFK) - Liberal
Bill Ayers - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Bernadine Dohrn - US domestic terrorist - Liberal
Occupy Wall Street - over 8,000 arrests, 3 murders, 2 arson, 10 plus reported rapes - a hardcore leftist movement
KKK- was spawn from democrats
Eradication of Jews 1940's (holocaust) - Hitler a member of the National Socialist Workers Party aka a hardcore leftist.
Planned parenthood - contentious I know but do some research on Margaret Sanger founder. I looked this up after Cadice Owens pointed it out.
Slavery - Democrats were proponents.
What about voting record?
13th amendment - abolish slavery.
%100 Republican support
%23 Dem support - actually had a good year for them
14th amendment - citizenship to freed slaves and now used by illegals.
%100 Republican support
%0 Dem support
15th amendment - right to vote for all
%100 repuplican support
%0 Dem support
Yet with all that I dont lay blame on the left for these nutters. Left of centre as opposed to far left I can find common ground. Conservatives usually can.
Please refrain from miss-attribution, misrepresentation and misdirection.
( just seemed ok to end with that as I guess it means what, Im right and your not ?) |
Theres a lot of nonsense in the post above. Firstly, practically no-one would call pre-WW1 Democrats left. Even now theyre mostly a party of the centre/centre-right, but back before Franklin Roosevelt they were the less progressive party in many respects, and had a mortgage on the far-right vote in the US south (whereas the Republicans were the quintessentially liberal party that had emerged from the tradition of the British Whigs). Why the parties switched positions on so many issues is complex and very interesting from an historical perspective, but its something you need to have a basic grasp of if youre going to talk about the history of US party politics.
Secondly, there must be no more tired or ridiculous claim than that Hitler was far-left. The National Socialists were always a party of the far right that had a minority of members (led by Ernst Rhm) with a mixture of socialist and far-right views; Hitler himself was of a more purely right-wing ideological bent and fought against these tendencies in the party, eventually purging Rhms faction completely during the Night of the Long Knives in 1934. Long before gaining power, Hitler had aligned himself with big-business and socially conservative interests; in government and before, he was a fascist and led a fascist party.
Thirdly, youre seriously going to assign the alienated teenage Columbine shooters to the liberal camp because of their parents views? By that logic, Im a right-wing Christian. Pleased to meet you.
These howlers aside, your point is not fundamentally incorrect: of course there have been left-wing terrorists and individual criminals. And many perhaps the vast majority of crimes are not really politically motivated at all. But what does seem to be a specific (and growing) problem in the US right now is radical right-wing political violence being carried out against minority targets, seemingly emboldened by a radical right-wing administration and the unseemly groups that it has fostered and promoted. There is really no counterpart for that specific phenomenon within the American left. |
Didn't name Hitler for your point exactly - Initially, Nazi political strategy focused on anti-big business, anti-bourgeois and anti-capitalist rhetoric as the workers party.
Separated out the historical points again as there were lots of things going on at the time but you cant change history and party foundations and this can be argued - not that its right.
On the Columbine nutters - I don't really assign blame to the liberal camp but the politics of their parents is factual. Trump has taken more of a pro Israel stance arguably than any other President in the last 50 years yet he is to blame for ani-Jewish nutcase. I dont beleive his so called rhetoric is any different than the lefts rhetoric particularly coming from the mainstream media yet Trump is singled out.
Honestly, this is the whole point Im trying to make. Conservatives do not blame the politics of the perpetrators of these callous and irrational acts. The list above was fairly easy to find, put together probably by a someone on the far right looking to "blame" a group with an opposing view.
I dont hold that view at all. I beleive in the right to campaign on policy, the freedom to express your view and the right of the voter to elect you based on what you are actually saying and not what the opposition claim you are saying. If you cant do that without being understood then you will not get supported.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| David wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | David wrote: | | Honestly I think race is a bit of a red herring here. It makes sense that gun crime might be more common among people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. You can maybe investigate the role that men and masculinity play (and have always played) in violence, but otherwise the most meaningful common factor is easy access to deadly weaponry. |
Agree with this except mental health is also a meaningful factor.
My first choice would be to remove every single gun from the US - it just aint ever going to happen for so many reasons. There are things that can be done but ultimately BOTH parties need to align and its a misnomer that its a republican problem.
Mental health though, well that can be worked on and I think Trump could be challenged on this. |
This is the go-to NRA/Republican talking point, but ultimately it seems like a bit of a distraction. Yes, mental health is a huge social problem and deserves much better in terms of social programs and spending than what the current (Republican!) administration is willing to offer. But theres no silver bullet (so to speak) to solve that, and its hardly even a decisive factor in what were talking about: after all, mental health is as big a problem here in Australia as it is in America, and where is our comparable gun violence problem?
Even if youre resigned to the fact that America is never going to give up its guns and want a next-best option, youre left with things like background checks, regulation of gun ownership and removal of certain military-grade guns from the market. Better mental-health funding is a great and much-needed initiative, but as a way to solve the US gun problem its a long way down the list of pragmatic remedies. |
Sort of agree. The distraction as you call it, when it comes to the mass shooting stats mental health is attributed to 85% of the incidents. I do think Trump is weak on this issue as Obama was before him.
I dont know how much clearer I can be. I do think the number one answer is to remove all guns. How though ? Estimated 300m up to 600m guns legal and illegal in the US. Its beyond saturation. How do you even afford to buy them back as we did here ? How do you know you get them all ? why would criminals hand them back in ? Like some argue about not legalising drugs, do you create a bigger underground issue ? And thats all before you consider changing the constitution where the right is clear and embedded. Something Americans take seriously and do not get fooled into thinking republicans are the reason this has not been amended. As I said before, Obama had a super majority and did not take action. The reason - he would never have got the votes from the Dems.
Agree totally with you on the need to improve and better regulate background checks, gun ownership and removal of certain military-grade guns although be real about the actions and not just how they look. I also think there should be tougher penalties when caught with an illegal gun which is hardly ever supported by the left.
_________________
"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| MJ23 wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1059299507538665472?s=19
Uh huh |
crickets.
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Good lord, so many errors and so little time:
1. WPF? Which 7 year old did you steal that from?
2. Have I once said that Trump caused the racist murders by a white right wing male? No. Misattribution again.
3. Not once have I stated that there aren't extemists on the left a false claim by you indeed it's a lie. Straw man argument, false claim, misrepresentation and a porky pie by you. You just thought that would be good to make up and throw in. Sorry you've been caught out.
4. You continue to use killings in Chicago per se and compare this with murderous misogyny and racism perpetrated by nutter white wing males. There is no comparison to my specific question:
Why is it that murderous, misogynist and racist white right wing nutter males are attracted to the right wing? To be clear I am asking why it is that these types area attracted to right wing ways of seeing the world.
Now I'm not so binary as to say that there are not racists and misogynists on the left but they don't go into synagogues and shoot people, they don't go into churches and shoot people dead and they don't kill gays in discos or shoot women in a yoga studio as far as I know: This seems to be the exclusive domain of right wing, white, racist, mysogynist and homophpobic nutter males who obviously are attracted to the right. In the words of professor Julius Sumner Miller "why is it so"
Please refrain from misattribution, misrepresentation and misdirection. |
.....
1. Yes - you explicitly blamed Trump for a synagogues shooting. I dont care what language you think you used - you blamed him. You said its a no-brainer just to what degree to apportion the blame.
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If your premise is incorrect so too is your conclusion.
Fact check:
I never blamed Trump for the murders in the synagogue, the murders in the church of Afican Americans or the murder of women in a Yoga studio. Not once.
I do say Trump his admin his cronies, etc (hopefuly and likely unintentionally) contributed to the climate of fear and of hate. That climate of fear and hate enables and permits nutters who happen to be murderous racist and misogynist white males. Those same murderous, racist and misogynist white males are attracted to the right. Why is this so?
This is not to say that all people of the right are racist, misogynist white males. That should go without saying. If however you draw that conclusion then I can't assist you as that is not what I've said. I've also said there are nutters on the left.
If you don't care about language then there is not point in argument. I unreservedly accept your apology though.
BTW I thought I heard on radio that the POTUS said he needed to turn down the rhetoric. I haven't heard all of it & was half asleep when I turned the radio on earlier this morning so I could have got that out of context.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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I never blamed Trump but I said instead A + B = C and its implied. But I never said it......
"That Trump and his admin / cronies have created the conditons necessary for these type of incidents to occur that is, the mass shooting in the synagogue and the pipe bombs etc is not even a debating point."
Like no conditions existed before Trump..... There is no hateful rhetoric on the left......Some have argued the divisiveness started under Obama going too far left.
"Did Trump, his admin and cronies contribute to enable murderers: absolutely. The only argument here is to what extent? "
Probably moves away from implication to accusation but you will no doubt argue the contrary.
"He is POTUS and needs to take some responsibility and tone down his rhetoric to his true-believers. "
This ones my favourite. This implies his "true Believers" are alt right. That is his base. This is who he wants voting for him even if/when he condemns them. That no-one in middle America currently supporting Trump could be anything other than a true believer. 60+million of them.
FWIW Id like them all to tone down the rhetoric. Hollywood, the media, Dems and Trump. What happened to Kavanaugh was a disgrace.
Trump aint a normal politician though and certainly not a normal republican. When he gets attacked, he cant help himself he attacks right back. He should be better but FFS spare me the partisan blame game when it comes to violence.
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