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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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yep oh shite indeed!
I have tried to educate myself but there are so many conflicting stories I don't know what or who to believe anymore
There seems to be a lot of reports that Turkey is one of the countries buying Daesh oil cheap - is that true? - I can't tell.
Russia have recently taken out a huge number of oil tankers - did that contribute to the downing of the Russian jet??? But then the USA also claim this and Turkey are NATO members??
Were Russia bombing Assad rebels rather than Daesh targets???
None of them can be trusted from what I can see they all have their own vested interests including selling arms - but I can't see it ending well
Hope the pilots are ok! _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Morrigu wrote: | yep oh shite indeed!
I have tried to educate myself but there are so many conflicting stories I don't know what or who to believe anymore
There seems to be a lot of reports that Turkey is one of the countries buying Daesh oil cheap - is that true? - I can't tell.
Russia have recently taken out a huge number of oil tankers - did that contribute to the downing of the Russian jet??? But then the USA also claim this and Turkey are NATO members??
Were Russia bombing Assad rebels rather than Daesh targets???
None of them can be trusted from what I can see they all have their own vested interests including selling arms - but I can't see it ending well
Hope the pilots are ok! |
The oil is being trucked from Northern Syria, so the only place it can go is Turkey. Russia has been bombing the shit out of the oil trucks (which the west left alone for a year or so). Turkey sat and watched ISIS **** up a Kurdish town because they hate Kurds, they bomb Kurds at every opportunity.
Russia are supporting Assad, so are probably bombing other Islamist groups, it's all a shit show. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Oh bugger, I thought mr thanks giving had figured out how to fight back _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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It's certainly the sort of incident that can escalate tensions, but if it emerges that no-one was killed then hopefully there won't be too much backlash.
Turkey is ostensibly a US ally, but that doesn't mean that the US would automatically take their side if a conflict between Turkey and Russia came about. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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The Rebels are claiming they shot the Russian pilots.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/11/24/reports-russian-pilot-shot-dead-in-syria.html
A Russian marine was also killed for trying to rescue the crew members who were in the jet that was downed by Turkey.
Quote: | Turkey Russia jet: Marine killed in pilot rescue bid
A Russian marine has been killed on a helicopter mission to rescue the crew of a jet downed by Turkey near the Syrian border on Tuesday.
He died when his helicopter came under fire from rebels in northern Syria, where the plane crashed.
Rebel fire from the ground killed one of the jet's two crew members after they ejected.
The head of Nato said it stood in solidarity with Turkey as the Kremlin warned of "serious consequences".
US President Barack Obama has assured his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in a phone call of the support of the US for his country's right to defend its sovereignty.
The White House said both presidents had agreed on the importance of de-escalating the situation.
Turkey said the jet had strayed into its airspace but Russian President Vladimir Putin insisted the Su-24 had been hit by an air-to-air missile while flying over Syrian territory. |
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34917485 _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 |
Last edited by Jezza on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Oh a web page. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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A good old Turkey Shoot would make many Americans happy. Time for some Russian payback I guess. Reports say it was 2 F16's that shot it down. The SU-24 V F16 is not what many in the field of aviation would call a fair fight. The Russian Pilot would not have stood a chance and if warned I would suggest that he would have got the hell out of the airspace as quick as he could. Conspiracy theories aside, some gun toting Turkish Fighter pilot got a hard on for a quick kill.
I hope the Russians send a few top pilots in SU-35's in the same area so at least we can have a fair fight. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Morrigu wrote: | yep oh shite indeed!
I have tried to educate myself but there are so many conflicting stories I don't know what or who to believe anymore
There seems to be a lot of reports that Turkey is one of the countries buying Daesh oil cheap - is that true? - I can't tell.
Russia have recently taken out a huge number of oil tankers - did that contribute to the downing of the Russian jet??? But then the USA also claim this and Turkey are NATO members??
Were Russia bombing Assad rebels rather than Daesh targets???
None of them can be trusted from what I can see they all have their own vested interests including selling arms - but I can't see it ending well
Hope the pilots are ok! |
This whole conflict has been full of conflicting reports Morrigu and verifying it can be very difficult for journalists and Middle Eastern correspondents.
There has been heavy rumours about the connection between Turkey and ISIS. This has been fuelled by the fact that foreign fighters have crossed the Turkish-Syrian border with such ease and without difficulty. Turkey also hates the idea of the Kurds expanding and possibly becoming autonomous one day (to the extent that they have bombed Kurdish targets rather than ISIS targets before with the battle of Kobani being the most notable example of this) and ISIS fighters who have been captured or have defected from the group have always hinted at Turkey being involved with the group in some shape or form.
In regards to Russia, reports about who they've been bombing has been conflicted as well. Many say that if the Russians primarily target the rebels over ISIS this may actually allow ISIS to capture more territory and benefit the group greatly but reporting is very conflicted here so it's hard to ascertain who they've been targeting primarily. You'll find different responses from different media outlets (whether that be Western or Arab media). _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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You don't shoot a guy parachuting to the ground, that's fricken disgusting. Cmon Russia, delete them _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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If killing one guy in a war plane is disgusting, what do you consider bombing civilians?
I'd love to know what the death toll of innocents in Syria is as a result of Russian air strikes right now. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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David wrote: | If killing one guy in a war plane is disgusting, what do you consider bombing civilians?
I'd love to know what the death toll of innocents in Syria is as a result of Russian air strikes right now. |
It's hard to get an exact figure but according to monitor groups such as the Syrian Observatory of Human Rights they reckon there's been at least 400 civilian deaths since Russia's intervention and airstrikes in late September.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/syria-monitoring-groups-russian-air-strikes-kill-400-civilians-151122063024984.html _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David wrote: | If killing one guy in a war plane is disgusting, what do you consider bombing civilians?
I'd love to know what the death toll of innocents in Syria is as a result of Russian air strikes right now. |
It's not 'killing one guy in a war plane', it's shooting at an ejected pilot who is descending via parachute. It's a war crime.
I'd say the Russian civilian death toll is significantly less than Islamic State's tally and they're bombing military targets, not performing massacres for the hell of it. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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"A US official told Al Jazeera that the penetration of Turkish air space by the Russian jet lasted "only a matter of seconds" as it crossed a roughly 3km wide section of Turkey that took only 20 seconds to traverse."
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/nato-urges-calm-after-turkey-downs-russian-jet/ar-BBnp1qx?OCID=HPCDHP
Even though it seems Russia have strayed into Turkish airspace a few times recently - if the 20 seconds is correct that seems a massive over reaction from Turkey to shoot the jet down!! Especially given that they don't seem to have a problem violating another country's airspace.
"At least 20 Turkish military aircraft have entered Greek airspace. The Turkish jets were spotted in a number of areas of the Aegean Sea, where they stayed for several minutes. Five groups of 14 aircraft, as well as six separate planes have committed 15 violations and 31 other violations," the Greek newspaper wrote."
http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/27-10-2015/132421-turkey_greece_airspace-0/#sthash.Y2K1nclf.dpuf
I read somewhere ( I cant link as I have forgotten where I read it DOH!) that the Turkmen were protecting daesh oil tankers when the Russian jets appeared and then the Turks blew em out of the sky - that makes more sense as a Turkish motive to me! With every passing day I am believing more and more that the Turkish Gov have done little to stem the flow of foreign fighters into Syria or let them back into Europe.
RIP pilots - I reckon you were better off to be shot on the way down than land in the hands of this backward barbaric mob - not the Turks the terrorists of either side!!
Edited cause I should have said the Turkish Government - spent some wonderful time in Turkey and the country and the people were brilliant !! _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
Last edited by Morrigu on Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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