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| What should we do about ISIS? |
| Withdraw all Western forces and hope for the best |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Deploy a large number of ground forces into Iraq and Syria to defeat them, then rebuild both countries |
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41% |
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| Negotiate with ISIS to stop further attacks and expansion of the group |
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| Allow Middle Eastern countries and militia groups to deal with the problem |
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8% |
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| It's too late! ISIS can't be stopped. |
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8% |
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| Containment from the air but no ground force invasion in Iraq and Syria (current policy) |
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8% |
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| Other (please explain) |
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33% |
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| No Idea |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Yeah, I read it, a great article by the wolf in sheeps clothing....
Nawaz is a former member of the radical Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir. This association led to his arrest in Egypt in December 2001, where he remained imprisoned until 2006. Reading books on human rights and interacting with Amnesty International, which adopted him as a prisoner of conscience, resulted in a change of heart. This led Nawaz to leave Hizb-ut-Tahrir in 2007, renounce his Islamist past and call for a "Secular Islam".
A great contributor to that amazing news reporting rant The Daily Beast, who have other great claims to fame such as.
Their university rankings....... In 2010 it released a ranking of the "50 Druggiest Colleges" citing data from Niche, formerly known as College Prowler. This ranking has been criticized by spokespeople from the University of New Hampshire and Williams College. The site has continued to publish unconventional rankings such as 25 Sexiest Colleges of 2014.
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Last edited by Skids on Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:04 am; edited 2 times in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Are you still located in it? I don't think I've read that. Can you give me a reference? |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Nice scoop Skids, but you would have learned exactly the same if you'd read the piece.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | Good article, Jezza. I hope Skids and the other crusaders on here read it.
| stui magpie wrote: | I wonder how it would work if somehow an arrangement could be negotiated and put an area aside to create a new nation state, similar to the creation of Israel.
Agree on an area and allow initial free access in and out. Those people who want to live under 16th century Islamic rule are free to go in and stay, those who don't can leave and be assisted in resettling elsewhere. After the initial settling period the borders are sealed and any border movement is strictly controlled. |
I guess the main problem with that is this isn't a conventional territorial conflict, like, say, Chechnya and Russia where if the Chechnyans are given statehood and control over their territories they might quite conceivably leave Russia alone. In this case, IS have explicitly expansionist ambitions, and have no intention of simply retaining their currently held chunks of Iraq and Syria.
On the other hand, as many have already pointed out, it's looking increasingly unlikely that IS will be defeated any time in the near future, which may mean that we need a long-term containment option. If that's the case, your suggestion isn't actually all that radical; after all, there are plenty of unpleasant states in the world (North Korea is the most obvious example) that, in the end, simply had to be left to their own devices when it became clear that they couldn't be defeated. So, in that sense, a stalemate and drawing up of borders may indeed be on the table in the long run, if there happens to be no other alternative. But I'm not sure how feasible a long-term control of those borders (like, say, a huge demilitarised zone) would be. |
It's a different take, I admit it, and the logistics would be horrendous but maybe not as horrendous as the alternative.
A large demilitarised zone is one option for containment, a large wall is another (no, I'm not kidding, there's plenty of money and potential willing labour in the area). Another is a sword of damocles type pact where it's stated that they'll be left alone as long as they do the same. If they continue to sponsor and support terrorist acts, the whole dame place gets nuked to dust.
Just trying to think about it differently. If all the radicalists and extremists can go to their perfect islamic state where they can be left alone, and all the other muslims who are happy to live and coexist with muslims of other flavours and other religions are able to do so , it may just de-escalate the tension and take away some of the attraction.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I know, I know, it's the Pickering Post, but it's not written by Pickering but by a bloke called Harry Richardson who I know nothing about but will have a look.
Very interesting read and I bet it would polarise opinion.
| Quote: | A couple of years ago I made the prediction that within 15 years, Islam will be finished as a force on this planet. At the time I thought this might turn out to be a conservative estimate. I still do.
That is not to say that I think it will be an easy job. I know that it will involve great pain and suffering. It will also require military might to contain Islam.
On its own however, military force will not be enough. The main battle we are fighting is ideological. It is a battle I know well and there have been similar occurrences in recent times from which to draw parallels.
In 1941 the Nazis were bragging about a 1,000 year Reich. They had already conquered most of Western Europe and were headed into North Africa and Russia. It would have been a brave man to predict that by 1950, National Socialism would be an entirely discredited ideology with only a few dysfunctional followers.
In 1980 roughly one third of the world was communist. When I visited Berlin in 1992 there was almost no sign that the Berlin Wall had ever existed.
These ideologies ruled through fear. Once they lost their iron grip, people could see them for the bankrupt ideologies they really were. Once this happened, they deserted in droves. |
Here's the rest of the article. http://pickeringpost.com/story/islam-will-only-be-defeated-by-islam/5688
Link to the blog site of the bloke who wrote the artcile and the book"The story of Mohammad. http://thestoryofmohammed.blogspot.com.au/
link to the pdf of the book. I'm gonna put this on the Kobo and have a read, http://www.johnwalton-is.net/download/Story%20of%20Mohammed%20Islam%20Unveiled.pdf?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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He seems like a Grade A fantasist. How on earth are you going to convince 1 billion people that the religion they've grown up with is stupid and evil? Even leaving aside the fringe violence and abuse aimed at Muslims that would become normalised if such a discourse became mainstream, this is pretty impractical to say the least. Even a cursory look at the world's history of minority faiths - from the Jews of Europe to the Copts of Egypt to the Mormons of the United States - would show that religions thrive on and derive meaning from mockery and oppression.
If you want to reduce the power of religious fundamentalism in the Islamic world - and this is a goal I support - then you need to support the development of secular, pluralist governments and recognise that these don't emerge overnight. Refusing to allow our own societies to be defined by the ravings of apocalyptic Christians slathering for a new crusade would be a good start.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Totally predictable response.
Try having a read of his actual book. Do it critically by all means but try to put aside your biases and read it rationally. I'd be interested to see what you take from it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Why would I want to read his (presumably self-published) book? There'd have to be a thousand scholars with more interesting, insightful and original books on the Islamic world than him. I mean he says that he once reckoned Islam would be "finished as a force on this planet" in 15 years. That's not the sort of thing you go around admitting if you want people to take you seriously.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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So what you just said was why would you read something that is probably going to contradict or challenge what you believe, better to read things already approved to reinforce your own beliefs.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Nor at all. I'd happily read, say, a book by Ayaan Hirsi Ali or even Sam Harris on Islam, even though I'd disagree with most of what either of them have to say. I just don't see the point in wasting my time on crackpots.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | ... I just don't see the point in wasting my time on crackpots. |
You read The Guardian  |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Nor at all. I'd happily read, say, a book by Ayaan Hirsi Ali or even Sam Harris on Islam, even though I'd disagree with most of what either of them have to say. I just don't see the point in wasting my time on crackpots. |
You're a good Dhimmi 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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A Jew-lover too, no less!
| Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | ... I just don't see the point in wasting my time on crackpots. |
You read The Guardian |
Exactly. I waste enough time on idiots as it is.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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