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Attacks in Paris

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:33 pm
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Somehow and I don't know how they have to weed them out (and rather quickly would be good) - the more that extremists are linked to the refugees the worse it is going to get for the genuine refugees!


Paris attacks: Algerian man arrested in Germany after 'warning of fear and terror' in French capital

German police have detained an Algerian man who allegedly warned Syrian asylum seekers last week of an imminent attack in Paris.

Witnesses said the man, who was detained at an asylum seeker shelter in the town of Arnsberg in central-west Germany, told Syrian asylum seekers that "fear and terror" would be spread in the French capital.

He is also alleged to have spoken about a bomb.

The senior public prosecutor in Arnsberg, Werner Wolff, said checks were being made into whether the allegations were credible.

"There is currently an investigation into whether the man is an accomplice or a confidant," said Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for the state of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW).

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/german-police-detain-algerian-in-connection-with-paris-attacks/6946232

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:09 pm
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think positive wrote:
A Syrian passport used to seek asylum in Greece was found on a dead terrorist.


Police arrest migrant carrying the SAME passport as Paris suicide bomber who sneaked into Europe posing as an asylum seeker.

A migrant has been arrested carrying an identical Syrian passport to one found on the body of a Paris suicide bomber, it was revealed today.

Serbian police say the document in the name of Ahmad Almohammad, 25, was identical to one found on a ISIS corpse outside the Stade de France.

It had the same date of birth and place of birth but the only difference was the photograph and it is thought that both passports are fakes that have the same details as they were made by the same forger.

Serbian newspaper Blic said the holder of the second passport was arrested at a refugee camp in Presevo on Saturday and held for questioning.


They seriously have got no idea who the hell has wandered in!! Rolling Eyes

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:13 pm
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But they're figuring out who was involved.

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/who-were-the-paris-terrorists-what-we-know-about-attackers-and-mastermind-abdelhamid-abaaoud/story-fnh81p7g-1227611778033

Interesting most of them seem to have come from stable homes with hard working parents, hardly impoverished persecuted poor souls. Just ask their parents.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:48 pm
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Another Grundle article on the Paris attacks, and the futile nature of France's response:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2015/11/17/rundle-terrorism-is-as-french-as-le-tour-eiffel/

Quote:
Terrorism is as French as le Tour Eiffel
Guy Rundle


You couldnt get a better picture of the current confusion, largely but not wholly on the right, than in Greg Sheridans column in The Australian yesterday, where he hymns liberte, egalite, fraternite, and defines Paris as the city of light, and the alternative to terror:

To attack Paris is to attack the very project of the Enlightenment, the 18th century precursor to modern liberalism. These terrible terrorist attacks did more than kill innocent civilians; they attacked the very idea of Paris.

Boy, oh, boy. I know that Greg approaches every new phase of the post-9/11 era like a teenager falling in love  nuh, this is real this time, not like all the other times, and two weeks later its all chocolate and Adele on endless repeat  but that one really made me do a spit-take of my Coco Pops. Paris, the antithesis of terrorism? Paris is the birthplace of political terrorism, you hapless clown, as well you know. Paris is the place where Robespierre, Saint-Just and Danton erected the guillotine in the Place de la Concorde and ran it for days on end, the space chosen in part because its octagonal symmetry was a symbol of the Enlightenment.

Its the place where Mary Wollstonecraft, walking across the cobbles, slipped and realised she walking on a slick of blood. Its where the US ambassador Thomas Jefferson looked on approvingly and wrote that he would rather see but an Adam and Eve left in every country, and left free than see the revolution fail. The form of liberalism that was born there was born as secular fundamentalism. The Jacobins, in their methods, if not the content of their politics, were exact precursors of the Islamic State, people so desperate to change reality they changed the calendar. Paris is the ground zero of Year Zero.

Better still, Paris is the home of strategic non-state terror for political ends, for it was here in 1796 that Gracchus Babeuf and the Conspiracy of Equals group began their violent campaign to force the post-revolutionary government to live up to its liberte/egalite/fraternite ideals. Indeed, that used to be one way in which the right assailed continental culture, by suggesting that its non-Anglo politics served as a crucible for extremism  as in the urban myth that Pol Pot had been a student of Sartres in Paris in the 40s (he wasnt; he was a radio engineering student, not an area of Sartres expertise).

This studied idiocy, repeated everywhere, has the same aim  to represent the Islamic State as entirely other, rather than identifying violent religious fundamentalism as a product of modernity, and coming after the depredations of violent secular modernity had done their work. What could be more modern and of our time, and of Europe, than the attack in the Bataclan concert hall? It had the character of a Nazi reprisal, where the men of an entire village were executed, or similar European Zionist practices on Arabs in the 1948 war, or similar events in 90s Yugoslavia. The attempt to make such events entirely other has one purpose: to make it look as though such acts are the expression of an ethnos or a religion, rather than of one movement within it. It thus licenses attacks against such that will have a disregard for civilian casualties.

Thus has been the giddy tone of mass media reporting on Frances strike back against the Islamic State stronghold of Raqqa. An indiscriminate attack on a city, most of whose inhabitants are simply subjects of IS, it will leave civilian casualties that will remain uncounted  except by the relatives of the dead, who just might have a smartphone and relatives in Europe they can call. It will certainly be useful for the IS, who, as with any terrorist group, welcomes the heightening of tension to a point where everyone feels the need to choose sides now. And it will go largely unremarked by the thousands flocking to paint their wheelie-bins red white and blue or stencil an Eiffel peace sign on their dog. It should by now be obvious that the expressions of solidarity with France are part of the IS script, turning universal human solidarity into a preface for a white European power. What would Lebanese-French, Lebanese-Australian kids feel about all that malarkey, I wonder? Would they feel that the tricolour Sydney Opera House represented them, when there was no similar projection of a cedar tree a few days earlier? Or would they take a different message? Its a funny way to do better integration.

The point of the Raqqa bombings is that they express not power, but powerlessness. They are for domestic consumption only, by a French President who was politically weakened long before the Paris attacks. Indeed he may now see the response to them as a last chance to assert his role as a representative of the nation against the challenge of Marine Le Pen and the Front National. But the Raqqa bombings are simply powerlessness armed, the vanguard of a vast force of futility. The identikit articles in yesterdays Oz were proof enough of that, with the same themes weve heard for the last 15 years: show of strength, assert the Enlightenment, rethink multiculturalism, learn from the fall of Rome(!) etc. The tricolour displays were a similar expression of powerlessness. When Italy was consumed by terror in the 70s, the left could bring out mass protests against left-group terror done in its name. When the Basque separatist group ETA terrorised Spain, an anti-terror civil rights movement formed. But the political and social forms to manifest this are fading now. People feel there is no social, so they resort to the world of images. Right-wing op-ed writers are in the same position  they have nothing but shopworn cliches to parade endlessly, the 800-word equivalent of a T-shirt stencil.

The truth? Terror needs no territory. Terror is the weapon of those without territory. The attitude and strategies of the French and Belgian nationals who carried out these attacks are as likely to have come from a fusion of French history and philosophy  it was Merleau-Ponty, the archetypal French intellectual, who wrote In Defense of Terror   with the Islamist themes of IS, as from violent Islamism itself. People are not animals who react with conditioned behaviour to bombing. They interpret state terror as a meaningful event and reply to it with meaningful acts, which may include political violence. You can do all the assimilating you want  it only takes one person in ten thousand to become a violent actor to unleash a wave of terror. Multi-ethnic societies in the West cannot be rethought  theyre here now. Multicultural policy is a detail  7/7 UK was multicultural, 2015 Paris was assimilationist, theres no shazam policy solution to this. The right should have the level-headedness to propose real solutions, or the guts to propose what theyd really like to do: the large scale round-up of Muslim citizens, and the indefinite occupation of the Middle East. Then we can at least be clear about where we all stand. People like Sheridan may have forgotten the violence in which the modern West was born. No one outside the West has.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:52 pm
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Stop subscribing, you're encouraging him.
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:15 pm
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He dribbles on doesn't he - bit like a PTID post ( sorry PTID - I have I must admit been grateful for your kind words lately but still..... Razz )

Don't worry Rundle - France's response will resemble a person trying to lance a boil with a blunt toothpick when compared to the response of Vlad ( now that a terrorist bomb has been proven to have been the cause of the Russian plane going down) and by all accounts China have decided to join Vlad BANG!!! Shocked

" the round scale round up" - apart from all the other weapons they a found a rocket launcher you tool!!! Rolling Eyes

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Woods Of Ypres 



Joined: 27 May 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:20 pm
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Vlads' response will be interesting, considering his own people shot down a civilian aircraft.
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HAL 

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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:22 pm
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My brain does not have a response for that.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:31 pm
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^ I respect Rundle's articles most of the time, but then his guard slips and he parlays drivel like this : "The right should have the level-headedness to propose real solutions, or the guts to propose what theyd really like to do: the large scale round-up of Muslim citizens, and the indefinite occupation of the Middle East".

I'm on the right. I want neither of those two things. Nor do most of the (many) other people I know on the right. But his little fantasy world of Leftist cleverer-than-thou virtue can only survive by making the kind of caricatures that he purports to despise. Another Left-wing narcissist, I'm afraid, sneering at those who express natural sympathy and solidarity via a tricolore. He'll be accusing us again of treason and calling for capital punishment for those who do not fit his intellectual straitjacket, soon.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:11 am
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I do appreciate your compassionate conservative approach, Mugwump, but has it occurred to you that your side of politics is also the one of Marine Le Pen, Donald Rumsfeld and Tony Abbott, and that these are far from fringe players?

I'll admit that I did think he was laying it on a little thick with the bit about internment camps (though there's a good 10% or so in this country who'd be down with that). But when it comes to indefinite occupation of the Middle East, it's hard to see what else the American foreign policy of the past 60+ years has been aiming for.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:20 am
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Morrigu wrote:
Don't worry Rundle - France's response will resemble a person trying to lance a boil with a blunt toothpick when compared to the response of Vlad ( now that a terrorist bomb has been proven to have been the cause of the Russian plane going down) and by all accounts China have decided to join Vlad BANG!!! Shocked


While a collaborative approach between east and west will be a significant step forward, you have to remember that Russia and its proxies have been at war with IS pretty much since day one, as has France, as have the Saudis, as has the US. If it were that easy to get rid of them, they'd be gone by now. Putin's not the incredible hulk, he's just another leader of a well-armed superpower trying (so far, mostly unsuccessfully) to get on top of an unconventional enemy.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:33 am
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David wrote:
I do appreciate your compassionate conservative approach, Mugwump, but has it occurred to you that your side of politics is also the one of Marine Le Pen, Donald Rumsfeld and Tony Abbott, and that these are far from fringe players?

I'll admit that I did think he was laying it on a little thick with the bit about internment camps (though there's a good 10% or so in this country who'd be down with that). But when it comes to indefinite occupation of the Middle East, it's hard to see what else the American foreign policy of the past 60+ years has been aiming for.


If he meant the far Right, then fine. But I think he's far too deliberate in his use of language to have made that slip inadvertently.

On the substance, le Pen, perhaps. Abbott and Rumsfeld - both of whom I dislike greatly - have both made public utterances suggesting that we need to behave with civility and compatriality to our Muslim citizens - as they damn well should. Hardly a round up (and Guantanamo and Manus Island do not qualify other than as a sleight of logic).

Your last sentence makes no real sense to me. America has occasionally provided troops to aid its allies, as it does in Europe - and it did make one howling error in invading Iraq unnecessarily after an atrocity on its soil comparable to Pearl Harbour deranged its politics.

If it really wanted to occupy the Middle east permanently it would have the resources in blood and treasure to do so. It would also have demolished OPEC at a stroke, rather than labour under oil at $100/bbl between 2003 and 2012. I think you're buying a conspiracy theory there.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:12 am
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I'm not just talking about Iraq/Afghanistan, I'm talking about its involvement in, say, the 1952 Iranian coup and its use of client states such as Qatar in the gulf. America was entrenched in the Middle East long before 2003.
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Morrigu Capricorn



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:41 am
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David wrote:
Putin's not the incredible hulk, he's just another leader of a well-armed superpower trying (so far, mostly unsuccessfully) to get on top of an unconventional enemy.


He also doesn't have much regard for Human Rights and collaboration Western style and if the Chinese join him - well BANG - that was my point!

Not sure how hard he has been trying but now the bomb on the Russian plane has been confirmed his motive is revenge - I think that scary as we have seen what he is capable of.

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Mugwump 



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:15 am
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David wrote:
I'm not just talking about Iraq/Afghanistan, I'm talking about its involvement in, say, the 1952 Iranian coup and its use of client states such as Qatar in the gulf. America was entrenched in the Middle East long before 2003.


Very shortly before that time Germany was a genocidal fascist nation. It's 60 years ago. At the time, Mossadeq nationalised British and other Western assets - assets which represented a substantial amount of British capital and know-how and which had been contracted with the Iranian government - for the Chavez-like purpose of enhancing his demagogic power. It was all dressed up in the usual Sovietist propaganda of the time - eradicating poverty, better education, removing foreign influence, etc. But it was an internal and external power play over oil, the usual ME problem.

Amid the Cold War, Britain and the US encouraged other factions in Iran which overthrew Mossadeq. It was not pretty, but neither was the original nationalisation (theft), and it was how foreign affairs were conducted at the time. The Pahlavi regime was no shining example of democracy, but it was modernising Iran in a way that Mullahs never will, and it might well have been far better for Iran had it stayed in place.

It didn't work in the end, and indeed it backfired - with results we all know. But an "Occupation" ? There were no material British or American troops, just a factional coup, of a kind which happened throughout the Cold War. The Iranians fighting within themselves over oil and influence, drawing on foreign support - Soviet and Western - where they could. The Islamist progagandists have got you by the ears, David. Don't listen to their backward calling.

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