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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I had another link to post but got interrupted by that pesky thing called work! It went back, way way back! I'll try and find it later! Cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| pietillidie wrote: | ^Unless there's plainly some Norsca-based oppression going on, someone has to demonstrate that this is actually an "ill" beyond any other mundane thing we do in life because it works okay in context.
I for one am not lamenting that I don't toil in the fields, have parasite-infested hair and wear deer skin; deodorant for crowded elevators, passenger vehicles and confined spaces seems like a small price to pay.
Of course, throwing in the adjective "obsessive" makes everything in any culture an ill! IMO you're confusing spending 20 seconds applying a ubiquitous product to your armpits with something—anything—that matters in our context. |
I think it's easy for us blokes to shrug this off as irrelevant - what does society expect us to do, really? OK, shaving is a pain in the arse (not literally!), but generally speaking we only have to spend a small amount of time on personal grooming in order to pass the base level of social acceptability. So what's two seconds of putting deodorant on? Sure, in that context, it doesn't seem like such a big deal.
But for most women, it's a small part of a much wider phenomenon; of regular time and effort required to transition from their natural appearance into their socially demanded roles (in some cases, the whole performance of makeup, nails etc. is actually literally demanded by their employers). That might be fun for some women, and others may have the self-confidence and political bent to not give a stuff. But for the rest it's a sacrifice of time and money that could be spent in other ways - a kind of 'female tax', I guess you could say. That makes this a more serious issue of gender equality than some might think.
It's kind of like wearing a burqa - many women may be happy and relaxed while wearing it, but what are the consequences when they want to take it off? That is the true measure of oppression, I feel.
On this issue, I'm fully on side with the radical feminists.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | ^Unless there's plainly some Norsca-based oppression going on, someone has to demonstrate that this is actually an "ill" beyond any other mundane thing we do in life because it works okay in context.
I for one am not lamenting that I don't toil in the fields, have parasite-infested hair and wear deer skin; deodorant for crowded elevators, passenger vehicles and confined spaces seems like a small price to pay.
Of course, throwing in the adjective "obsessive" makes everything in any culture an ill! IMO you're confusing spending 20 seconds applying a ubiquitous product to your armpits with something—anything—that matters in our context. |
I think it's easy for us blokes to shrug this off as irrelevant - what does society expect us to do, really? OK, shaving is a pain in the arse (not literally!), but generally speaking we only have to spend a small amount of time on personal grooming in order to pass the base level of social acceptability. So what's two seconds of putting deodorant on? Sure, in that context, it doesn't seem like such a big deal.
But for most women, it's a small part of a much wider phenomenon; of regular time and effort required to transition from their natural appearance into their socially demanded roles (in some cases, the whole performance of makeup, nails etc. is actually literally demanded by their employers). That might be fun for some women, and others may have the self-confidence and political bent to not give a stuff. But for the rest it's a sacrifice of time and money that could be spent in other ways - a kind of 'female tax', I guess you could say. That makes this a more serious issue of gender equality than some might think.
It's kind of like wearing a burqa - many women may be happy and relaxed while wearing it, but what are the consequences when they want to take it off? That is the true measure of oppression, I feel.
On this issue, I'm fully on side with the radical feminists. |
Yeah right.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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yeah not sure you can compare shaving your pits and pins to wearing a burqa!!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | David wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | ^Unless there's plainly some Norsca-based oppression going on, someone has to demonstrate that this is actually an "ill" beyond any other mundane thing we do in life because it works okay in context.
I for one am not lamenting that I don't toil in the fields, have parasite-infested hair and wear deer skin; deodorant for crowded elevators, passenger vehicles and confined spaces seems like a small price to pay.
Of course, throwing in the adjective "obsessive" makes everything in any culture an ill! IMO you're confusing spending 20 seconds applying a ubiquitous product to your armpits with something—anything—that matters in our context. |
I think it's easy for us blokes to shrug this off as irrelevant - what does society expect us to do, really? OK, shaving is a pain in the arse (not literally!), but generally speaking we only have to spend a small amount of time on personal grooming in order to pass the base level of social acceptability. So what's two seconds of putting deodorant on? Sure, in that context, it doesn't seem like such a big deal.
But for most women, it's a small part of a much wider phenomenon; of regular time and effort required to transition from their natural appearance into their socially demanded roles (in some cases, the whole performance of makeup, nails etc. is actually literally demanded by their employers). That might be fun for some women, and others may have the self-confidence and political bent to not give a stuff. But for the rest it's a sacrifice of time and money that could be spent in other ways - a kind of 'female tax', I guess you could say. That makes this a more serious issue of gender equality than some might think.
It's kind of like wearing a burqa - many women may be happy and relaxed while wearing it, but what are the consequences when they want to take it off? That is the true measure of oppression, I feel.
On this issue, I'm fully on side with the radical feminists. |
Yeah right.
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you really dont like the fairer sex do you!!
you want something to whinge about?
try periods, try cramps, try getting the leaks when your at school, try PMS, try squeezing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a plum! try cracked nipples, sagging belly skin, drooping boobs! then try menopause!
about 1 percent of women look anything like the girl in your pic with no effort, most work just as hard in the gym as he does! and FYI she has biceps, shes not just born that way!!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| think positive wrote: |
you really dont like the fairer sex do you!!
you want something to whinge about?
try periods, try cramps, try getting the leaks when your at school, try PMS, try squeezing a watermelon out of a hole the size of a plum! try cracked nipples, sagging belly skin, drooping boobs! then try menopause!
about 1 percent of women look anything like the girl in your pic with no effort, most work just as hard in the gym as he does! and FYI she has biceps, shes not just born that way!! |
No problem with women at all, always get along great with women from high school, into employment, school mums, whoever, big problem with the incessant whining about how hard it is for western women from feminists.
I was responding to David saying men don't have to do much of anything actually, fact is that for men to look 'good' takes a hell of a lot of effort, the pic was more highlighting that. If anything I was responding to a proxy whinge rather than whinging myself, I guess when he said he 'sides with radical feminists' I had to redress that balance  .
I'd say a far lower percentage of men look like the guy in that pic and ugly guys (fat, neckbeards, balding, short etc), generally can't do ANYTHING to look any better, unlike plain and unattractive women. Short men have it worst of all, and I'll stop judging women on their looks and weight when they stop judging men on their height. (Not short personally, but heard plenty of women's gossip about short men to know what the majority really think). |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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im quite fond of short men
Jarred Blair is so cute!!
id say women on the whole get judged a lot more than men!!
the whole do i look fast in this from a size 10, to the guy with the pot belly stutting on the beach in speedos!!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Oi. Don't pick on my budgie smugglers and it cost thousands of $ to get that pot gut. 
 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| think positive wrote: | | yeah not sure you can compare shaving your pits and pins to wearing a burqa!! |
Dunno - thinking I might take to wearing one to save me from the bloody dreary " what shall I wear - fck I have to iron something" daily chore 
Could even be entertaining - given the crap some of my modest and well mannered colleagues cop for wearing the hijab and their almost silent response to such abuse - hmmm I may well be splattered
That sounds flippant I know - but I really don't care what people think- but I also know that most seem to and it this is the source of much unhappiness ( and worse) for women but also men👎
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Pffft. Who irons?
Actually I'm gunna have to, massive load in the laundry cupboard right now! Been there a good 2 months! I have a hang part in the cupboard, so stuff doesn't get more creased, it's at capacity! But the kids just finished exams, I'll pay one of them to do it! (It's mostly my stuff! Most of theirs is wash and wear!)
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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While I totally support the ban, it does not mean that the practice will be eradicated. It's already a fringe cultural tradition often practiced in remote areas where the law of the village may hold more sway than the law of the land. Still, anything that can be done to put a stop to this practice is a good thing, and this is definitely a step in the right direction.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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..... often practiced in remote areas where the law of the village may hold more sway than the law of the land.
Yeah like the villages of Sydney and Melbourne!!!
And you are very wrong it is not fringe - not by a very very very long shot!!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ I was actually talking about in African countries, where it is usually not endorsed by ruling parties. It goes without saying that it's a highly unusual phenomenon in Australia.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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