#7 Adam Treloar
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | SwansWay wrote: | | I don't think we should bring in a high profile, highly paid midfielder. We are already on the right track and more often than not, paying top dollar for a new recruit doesn't get you flags. I say stick with our young guys and develop a solid team that grows together. We're going to have an amazing midfield in the years to come. Keep developing I say. I don't think Treloar is worth it. In the end these decisions cost you when other players can't be fit into the salary cap. I'd almost chase one of their midfielders who can't get a senior game. Lots of talent we probably haven't heard of. |
Generally I agree with you and that is what Collingwood has been doing in recent years. However, from time to time if an opportunity comes to land a genuine talent at a prime age, then we should definitely consider it. After all, the Hawks haven't done so bad in recent years buying the likes of Burgoyne, Lake and most recently that defender from the Dees whose name I've forgotten (pardon my dementia). I honestly don't know much about Treloar, but if our footy department rates him as a potential A grade midfielder, then given his age, he would be a good choice. Remember in a year or two Swanny will retire and even Pendles will probably play a lot less time in the midfield in 2-3 years time. Also, we are yet to see any indication that Freeman will ever be any good. |
Frawley
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^^^ The difference is that I understand that we will have to trade for Treloar, whereas, for the most part, Hawthorn hasn't traded out - they've signed high-quality free agents. My concern about Treloar (putting aside whether he can actually play - on that score, all I can say is that I've watched a lot of football games and I couldn't tell you which one he is) is with what Collingwood might have to give up to get him. |
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Darkstranger
Joined: 06 Jun 2012
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Darkstranger wrote: | | Love how people go to stats and back there whole argument based on that... seriously, good avg player at best and personally would have him for 300 -400k for 2-3 years NO MORE, other than that, he can GTFO |
The coach obviously disagrees with you. |
Explain why you think that's obvious?
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Lazza wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | SwansWay wrote: | | I don't think we should bring in a high profile, highly paid midfielder. We are already on the right track and more often than not, paying top dollar for a new recruit doesn't get you flags. I say stick with our young guys and develop a solid team that grows together. We're going to have an amazing midfield in the years to come. Keep developing I say. I don't think Treloar is worth it. In the end these decisions cost you when other players can't be fit into the salary cap. I'd almost chase one of their midfielders who can't get a senior game. Lots of talent we probably haven't heard of. |
Generally I agree with you and that is what Collingwood has been doing in recent years. However, from time to time if an opportunity comes to land a genuine talent at a prime age, then we should definitely consider it. After all, the Hawks haven't done so bad in recent years buying the likes of Burgoyne, Lake and most recently that defender from the Dees whose name I've forgotten (pardon my dementia). I honestly don't know much about Treloar, but if our footy department rates him as a potential A grade midfielder, then given his age, he would be a good choice. Remember in a year or two Swanny will retire and even Pendles will probably play a lot less time in the midfield in 2-3 years time. Also, we are yet to see any indication that Freeman will ever be any good. |
Frawley |
Thanks Lazza. |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| jackcass wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | I'm with you Stui, can't see the hype and really cant understand any talk of throwing money at him |
I haven't seen enough of him but did pose the question over on BF about a comparison with O'Rourke. Both highly hyped, both high draft selections with Treloar being pre-draft and O'Rourke being pick 2. Yet for all the O'Rourke hype he hasn't had an impact at the Hawks thus far in 2015. |
Which is why its very dangerous to go throwing this sort of money around a kid with potential or rated highly. You throw money at a ready made star who will instantly turn your team from a finals team to a premiership contender like we did with Ball and Jolly, like Dangerfield would do to us. Treloar, I doubt it
| swoop42 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | He's 12th in the league for average possession and number 1 for GWS.
He's Adams with all the kinks ironed out and will provide us with that one extra quality mid we probably need to bridge the gap.
Get Freeman right, add in Treloar and the continual improvement of de Goey, Adams, Crisp, Broomhead etc then our midfield is looking very good going forward. |
he's 12th so he's not that special. He's a slightly faster Adams with better disposal. Is that worth the kind of coin plus the draft picks/players we'd need to trade to get him? That's a serious investment, you want something serious in return.
I'm a long way from convinced that he's it. I'd rather look at how we can get Weideman in the draft or trade for someone similar. |
People are obsessed with Weideman but if it wasn't for the name would we be?
Opinion on him seems a little mixed.
Moore is most likely a better talent anyway and with two ruckman to develop alongside Cloke with White and perhaps Reid in support a kpf this draft mightn't be as high on Hines wish list as we think.
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This would be a problem if that's their thinking, you don't recruit KPP when you need them, you recruit them 3-4 years before you need them so they can develop and Cloke has about that many years left. |
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dillo_09 
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Location: Whittington
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ The difference is that I understand that we will have to trade for Treloar, whereas, for the most part, Hawthorn hasn't traded out - they've signed high-quality free agents. My concern about Treloar (putting aside whether he can actually play - on that score, all I can say is that I've watched a lot of football games and I couldn't tell you which one he is) is with what Collingwood might have to give up to get him. |
The problem with the way Hawthorn are doing the free agent acquisition is that free agents are usually well into the second half of their career and unless you have a young defender development program in place and working (do they? dont they?) Lake, Gibson and Frawley will all be gone in a few years and then what??
They are making hay whilst the sun shines with back line player top ups, undoubtedly, but in MY opinion there is NO SUBSTITUTE for a well designed, researched and executed long term and ongoing development program for all young players.
Which I think/hope we are doing. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Based on the vibe here, it seems people suggest we play the conservative card and recruit young, develop our own and not take any risks in "adding" alternate club talent to our list. Sounds like the views of the old Collingwood Committees of the 1970's and 1990's whom through conservative practices missed out on:
1. Bernie Quinlan
2. Kevin Bartlett
3. Craig Bradley
4. Paul Roos
5. Tony Lockett
6. Nicky Winmar
Treloar is a dead set 22 year old gun with 200 matches ahead of him, great speed, endurance and disposal who'll offer us more than old fashioned mid field grunt we tend to attract from other clubs:
(anyone remember Russell Ohlsen, Mike Woolnough, Ian Low, David Young, Gerald Betts, Tom Floyd, Jon Hummel, Graeme Atkins, Stephen Roach, Allan Davis, Greg Smith, Peter Bradbury, Brett Yorgey, Tony Elshaug, Murray Wrensted, Tony Woods, Brad Hardie, Barry Mitchell, Justin Stariski, Robert Pyman, John Barnett, Shannon Gibson, Stuart Mangin, Tyson Lane, Ricky Olaren "unsure", Andrew Ukovic, Cahd Rintoul, Carl Steinfort, Shane Woewodin,Anthony Corrie, Simon Buckley, Peter Yagmoor, Jordan Russell, Clinton Young) to name a few!!
Let's go for talent!!!
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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gilding the lilly when the rose bush is dying: Gold
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| jackcass wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | I'm with you Stui, can't see the hype and really cant understand any talk of throwing money at him |
I haven't seen enough of him but did pose the question over on BF about a comparison with O'Rourke. Both highly hyped, both high draft selections with Treloar being pre-draft and O'Rourke being pick 2. Yet for all the O'Rourke hype he hasn't had an impact at the Hawks thus far in 2015. |
Caddy is another example, hardly setting the world on fire at the cattery, although granted he was only pick 7
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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FLAGPIES
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
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| inxs88 wrote: | Based on the vibe here, it seems people suggest we play the conservative card and recruit young, develop our own and not take any risks in "adding" alternate club talent to our list. Sounds like the views of the old Collingwood Committees of the 1970's and 1990's whom through conservative practices missed out on:
1. Bernie Quinlan
2. Kevin Bartlett
3. Craig Bradley
4. Paul Roos
5. Tony Lockett
6. Nicky Winmar
Treloar is a dead set 22 year old gun with 200 matches ahead of him, great speed, endurance and disposal who'll offer us more than old fashioned mid field grunt we tend to attract from other clubs:
(anyone remember Russell Ohlsen, Mike Woolnough, Ian Low, David Young, Gerald Betts, Tom Floyd, Jon Hummel, Graeme Atkins, Stephen Roach, Allan Davis, Greg Smith, Peter Bradbury, Brett Yorgey, Tony Elshaug, Murray Wrensted, Tony Woods, Brad Hardie, Barry Mitchell, Justin Stariski, Robert Pyman, John Barnett, Shannon Gibson, Stuart Mangin, Tyson Lane, Ricky Olaren "unsure", Andrew Ukovic, Cahd Rintoul, Carl Steinfort, Shane Woewodin,Anthony Corrie, Simon Buckley, Peter Yagmoor, Jordan Russell, Clinton Young) to name a few!!
Let's go for talent!!! |
Brilliant Post!! Couldn't agree more!
I'd go as far to say that not getting Bernie Quinlan cost us the 79 and 81 Flags!
Obviously build from within but top up with class from other clubs.
Dare I say it the Dawks model is the best way to go.
Anyway that's my humble opinion. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| inxs88 wrote: | Based on the vibe here, it seems people suggest we play the conservative card and recruit young, develop our own and not take any risks in "adding" alternate club talent to our list. Sounds like the views of the old Collingwood Committees of the 1970's and 1990's whom through conservative practices missed out on:
1. Bernie Quinlan
2. Kevin Bartlett
3. Craig Bradley
4. Paul Roos
5. Tony Lockett
6. Nicky Winmar
Treloar is a dead set 22 year old gun with 200 matches ahead of him, great speed, endurance and disposal who'll offer us more than old fashioned mid field grunt we tend to attract from other clubs:
(anyone remember Russell Ohlsen, Mike Woolnough, Ian Low, David Young, Gerald Betts, Tom Floyd, Jon Hummel, Graeme Atkins, Stephen Roach, Allan Davis, Greg Smith, Peter Bradbury, Brett Yorgey, Tony Elshaug, Murray Wrensted, Tony Woods, Brad Hardie, Barry Mitchell, Justin Stariski, Robert Pyman, John Barnett, Shannon Gibson, Stuart Mangin, Tyson Lane, Ricky Olaren "unsure", Andrew Ukovic, Cahd Rintoul, Carl Steinfort, Shane Woewodin,Anthony Corrie, Simon Buckley, Peter Yagmoor, Jordan Russell, Clinton Young) to name a few!!
Let's go for talent!!! |
Oh my word, are we back onto this again?
What is the obsession with the missed 'Big Fish' all about? I mean, 12-15 other clubs didn't land those players either, its just a big game of Woulda Coulda Shoulda. At the end of the day, we Dinnae
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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BTW not sure how Yagmoor made that list.....
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | I'm with you Stui, can't see the hype and really cant understand any talk of throwing money at him |
I haven't seen enough of him but did pose the question over on BF about a comparison with O'Rourke. Both highly hyped, both high draft selections with Treloar being pre-draft and O'Rourke being pick 2. Yet for all the O'Rourke hype he hasn't had an impact at the Hawks thus far in 2015. |
Caddy is another example, hardly setting the world on fire at the cattery, although granted he was only pick 7 |
Not really sure what point you two are trying to make.
Treloar is miles ahead of O'Rourke as a player and well ahead of Caddy.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Look, I have absolutely no issue with paying/trading to get good players. I just don't know much about Treloar except the hype that we're apparently willing to pay big coin for him. Hence the thread, Wilbur. 
What i've learned so far is that he is a good midfielder, probably very good. But nothing I've read here tells me he's a star.
So maybe we have to pay overs to get a player to leave where they are, I get that, but the club needs to be smart about it and I trust they will be.
Mids can kick on and star much faster than KPP, they develop faster. Cloke is 28, Darcy Moore is 19. By the time Moore is physically ready to start being the main main up forward Cloke will be either gone or going. Apart from Gault we have ZERO young KPP talent on the list while we have a metric buttload of running players.
So, if we're going to spend serious coin on a midfielder he better be very fkn good. Is Treloar? I don't know. But, we really need to refresh our young KPP stocks.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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MightyMagpie
Joined: 04 Jun 2013
Location: WA
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I am cautious like you on this Stui - talk of 5 x $750K (~7.5% of current salary cap!) has me concerned.
Overpaying can only ever be a benefit in the short term (a la Luke Ball - and even then he extended for unders so it averaged out) and is only relevant really for the final piece or pieces in a premiership puzzle.
Don't shoot me, but you missed White who is ~27 in your KPF analysis. I also think Witts and Cox have some goal-square/goal-kicking potential, especially when the sub rule goes.
The sustained benefit is in getting guys for under their market value. Hine & Co seem to have done okay with this recently:
Shaw -> Adams
Beams + late pick -> De Goey, Greenwood, Crisp
Lumumba -> Varcoe
Dawes -> whichever of the 3 SA boys it was
I wouldn't be surprised if there is no big FA/trade (eg Dangerfield or Treloar), but rather the Club looks to improve at the margins through value deals, eg maybe Suckling as an FA.
Edited for clarity!
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Last edited by MightyMagpie on Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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