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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Post subject: Hawthorn's plan for on going success - lessons for the Pies. | |
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I reckon I have cracked their code for success and it is that simple. When you already have a highly skilled, multi-talented flag winning team and the only problem is ageing, you keep on replacing the oldest players and those who leave (Eg. Clinton Young) by two methods.
1. Get experienced players from other clubs in the 24 - 27 age group who have about 3-4 years left (Eg. They are now going after Yarran).
2. Use the draft to get young players who the develop really well through their VFL links to Box Hill, which a very well run club. Make sure about 1 or 2 youngsters make it or are close to making it each year. (Eg, Sicily, Langford etc.).
This keeps the momentum up and more importantly, keeps the team strong enough to retain the winning culture, positive attitude and confidence required for continued success. It also eases the burdens on the coaching staff because of the structure in place to present really good young/new players into the club.
So no, it is not rocket science and they have to still play by the rules. However, the ONLY method of stopping their continued charge is for the other clubs to not trade players to them and to hope that the youngsters they draft don’t succeed. Unlikely to happen, therefore Hawthorn likely to dominate again next season. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR
Joined: 01 Nov 2004 Location: Under negotiation
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They should probably get some credit for identifying their requirements & then targeting the right mature' players. Of course luck always plays a part. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR wrote: | They should probably get some credit for identifying their requirements & then targeting the right mature' players. Of course luck always plays a part. |
Totally agree with you about luck playing a part in every flag success but from Collingwood's perspective, I can't see why this type of structure for constant can’t be set up like the Hawthorn structure.
But we need to improve our assessment around recycled mature players. This is where Hawthorn has aced us over the past 3-4 years. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Location: Benalla
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They only draft-recruit players who can kick, and they have a preference for left footers, that's their secret. _________________ Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Bob Sugar wrote: | They only draft-recruit players who can kick, and they have a preference for left footers, that's their secret. |
Yep you are right, that is certainly a huge part of it dude. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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perthmagpie
Joined: 27 Mar 2004 Location: Yarrawonga
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We have as many left footers. _________________ Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Was there some problem with recycling Crisp, Varcoe and Greenwood last year? |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Was there some problem with recycling Crisp, Varcoe and Greenwood last year? |
No not at all and not suggesting anything like that.
Rather, I’m saying that we are definitely on the right track for flag success IF that type of “Hawthorn like” recruiting of mature players continues at Collingwood. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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npalm
Joined: 01 May 2005
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While the Hawks recruiting strategy has been excellent, I think the key thing is that they manage to recruit these experienced talented players (Lake, Burgoyne, Gunstone etc) and still stay under the salary cap.
I know they saved a lot of salary cap room when they lost Buddy but that doesn't explain it fully.
To me their success is dependent on their ability to convince their players to accept massive 'unders'. That way they can keep topping up with talented players year after year. _________________ Side by side. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: Re: Hawthorn's plan for on going success - lessons for the P | |
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Lazza wrote: | I reckon I have cracked their code for success and it is that simple. When you already have a highly skilled, multi-talented flag winning team and the only problem is ageing, you keep on replacing the oldest players and those who leave (Eg. Clinton Young) by two methods.
1. Get experienced players from other clubs in the 24 - 27 age group who have about 3-4 years left (Eg. They are now going after Yarran).
2. Use the draft to get young players who the develop really well through their VFL links to Box Hill, which a very well run club. Make sure about 1 or 2 youngsters make it or are close to making it each year. (Eg, Sicily, Langford etc.).
This keeps the momentum up and more importantly, keeps the team strong enough to retain the winning culture, positive attitude and confidence required for continued success. It also eases the burdens on the coaching staff because of the structure in place to present really good young/new players into the club.
So no, it is not rocket science and they have to still play by the rules. However, the ONLY method of stopping their continued charge is for the other clubs to not trade players to them and to hope that the youngsters they draft don’t succeed. Unlikely to happen, therefore Hawthorn likely to dominate again next season. |
I agree that they have been sage at topping up. The part you haven't considered is that the success of Hawthorn is built around a core group of superstars. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Rioli and Roughead.
Of the superstars we had in the side in 2010, we were very unlucky that two of our superstars have ended up injured (Thomas and Reid) or lost direction (Shaw) and we had a lot of very important players for us (Ball, Jolly, Didak, Maxwell) pass their use by date.
The thing Hawthorn did well was peak as a team at the same time as their 5 superstars peaked and the superstars all basically peaked at the right time. They are all around 30 years old now.
We do now have a core group of players all the same age who could theoretically form the nucleus of a great team for the next 10 years.
De Goey, Moore, Scharenberg, Langdon, Marsh, Treloar, Adams, Elliot, Williams, Grundy, Crisp and Broomhead (possibly Aish?). That is half a team (and Pendles, Reid, Brown, Varcoe, Greenwood and Faz are all still young enough to play a part in the first half of the peak years of this group - not sure about Swan and Cloke). As they peak, the pies would be wise to top up as the hawks did with specified role players so as to maximize the peak years of this group. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Their cherry picking of trades and free agency has been brilliant, they've gone for needs and done well.
The other under rated thing is that they have lost very few players seeking opportunities elsewhere, those in the VFL are willing to work their tail off to be available to crack a shot at getting in the seniors and potentially be a premiership player. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Lazza, thing is tho mate, try as they might , they will NOT replace outriight stars like hodge, mitchell, burgonyne, lake, lewis, hale, and even roughie and riolli in the not too distant future. They can trade their asses off, but you dont replace stars like that with rejects etc, it cant be done. Time and age will get them, its inevitable, it happened to the lions and cats, the cats only this season, age is inevitable, and they cannot be replaced by guys with equal talent. Period. _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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ANNODAM
Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Location: Eltham, VIC.
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perthmagpie wrote: | We have as many left footers. |
Yeah, unfortunately some of our players seem to have 2 left feet! _________________ WE WERE ROBBED, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, RIGHT IN FRONT OF MEEE!
N.Y METS, N.Y GIANTS, PENRITH PANTHERS & HOBART HURRICANES FAN.
WE ALL LOOK GOOD AT TRAINING, IT'S THE MATCHES THAT COUNT! |
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makri
Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Location: Clifton Hill
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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perthmagpie wrote: | We have as many left footers. |
No they are right footers, they just look like left footers
Sorry shoulda kept reading, beaten by both Madonna and Makri!
Hawthorn are lucky like Geelong were, bunch of good players who realise they are handsomely paid anyway, and value a premiership medal more than an extra $100-200,000. Crazy? Not really, they may get the money for longer _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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