Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Hawthorn's plan for on going success - lessons for the Pies.

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion
 
Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:06 pm
Post subject: Hawthorn's plan for on going success - lessons for the Pies.Reply with quote

I reckon I have cracked their code for success and it is that simple. When you already have a highly skilled, multi-talented flag winning team and the only problem is ageing, you keep on replacing the oldest players and those who leave (Eg. Clinton Young) by two methods.

1. Get experienced players from other clubs in the 24 - 27 age group who have about 3-4 years left (Eg. They are now going after Yarran).

2. Use the draft to get young players who the develop really well through their VFL links to Box Hill, which a very well run club. Make sure about 1 or 2 youngsters make it or are close to making it each year. (Eg, Sicily, Langford etc.).

This keeps the momentum up and more importantly, keeps the team strong enough to retain the winning culture, positive attitude and confidence required for continued success. It also eases the burdens on the coaching staff because of the structure in place to present really good young/new players into the club.

So no, it is not rocket science and they have to still play by the rules. However, the ONLY method of stopping their continued charge is for the other clubs to not trade players to them and to hope that the youngsters they draft don’t succeed. Unlikely to happen, therefore Hawthorn likely to dominate again next season.

_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR 



Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Location: Under negotiation

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:28 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

They should probably get some credit for identifying their requirements & then targeting the right mature' players. Of course luck always plays a part.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR wrote:
They should probably get some credit for identifying their requirements & then targeting the right mature' players. Of course luck always plays a part.


Totally agree with you about luck playing a part in every flag success but from Collingwood's perspective, I can't see why this type of structure for constant can’t be set up like the Hawthorn structure.
But we need to improve our assessment around recycled mature players. This is where Hawthorn has aced us over the past 3-4 years.

_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
Bob Sugar 



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

They only draft-recruit players who can kick, and they have a preference for left footers, that's their secret.
_________________
Defender...........

On the day before the first, Daicos created God.

You like this.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:08 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sugar wrote:
They only draft-recruit players who can kick, and they have a preference for left footers, that's their secret.


Yep you are right, that is certainly a huge part of it dude.

_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
perthmagpie Aries



Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:43 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

We have as many left footers.
_________________
Magpies love pies(Lol)
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:49 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Was there some problem with recycling Crisp, Varcoe and Greenwood last year?
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:15 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
Was there some problem with recycling Crisp, Varcoe and Greenwood last year?


No not at all and not suggesting anything like that.

Rather, I’m saying that we are definitely on the right track for flag success IF that type of “Hawthorn like” recruiting of mature players continues at Collingwood. Idea

_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
npalm 



Joined: 01 May 2005


PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:31 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

While the Hawks recruiting strategy has been excellent, I think the key thing is that they manage to recruit these experienced talented players (Lake, Burgoyne, Gunstone etc) and still stay under the salary cap.
I know they saved a lot of salary cap room when they lost Buddy but that doesn't explain it fully.
To me their success is dependent on their ability to convince their players to accept massive 'unders'. That way they can keep topping up with talented players year after year.

_________________
Side by side.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
E 



Joined: 05 May 2010


PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Hawthorn's plan for on going success - lessons for the PReply with quote

Lazza wrote:
I reckon I have cracked their code for success and it is that simple. When you already have a highly skilled, multi-talented flag winning team and the only problem is ageing, you keep on replacing the oldest players and those who leave (Eg. Clinton Young) by two methods.

1. Get experienced players from other clubs in the 24 - 27 age group who have about 3-4 years left (Eg. They are now going after Yarran).

2. Use the draft to get young players who the develop really well through their VFL links to Box Hill, which a very well run club. Make sure about 1 or 2 youngsters make it or are close to making it each year. (Eg, Sicily, Langford etc.).

This keeps the momentum up and more importantly, keeps the team strong enough to retain the winning culture, positive attitude and confidence required for continued success. It also eases the burdens on the coaching staff because of the structure in place to present really good young/new players into the club.

So no, it is not rocket science and they have to still play by the rules. However, the ONLY method of stopping their continued charge is for the other clubs to not trade players to them and to hope that the youngsters they draft don’t succeed. Unlikely to happen, therefore Hawthorn likely to dominate again next season.


I agree that they have been sage at topping up. The part you haven't considered is that the success of Hawthorn is built around a core group of superstars. Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Rioli and Roughead.

Of the superstars we had in the side in 2010, we were very unlucky that two of our superstars have ended up injured (Thomas and Reid) or lost direction (Shaw) and we had a lot of very important players for us (Ball, Jolly, Didak, Maxwell) pass their use by date.

The thing Hawthorn did well was peak as a team at the same time as their 5 superstars peaked and the superstars all basically peaked at the right time. They are all around 30 years old now.

We do now have a core group of players all the same age who could theoretically form the nucleus of a great team for the next 10 years.

De Goey, Moore, Scharenberg, Langdon, Marsh, Treloar, Adams, Elliot, Williams, Grundy, Crisp and Broomhead (possibly Aish?). That is half a team (and Pendles, Reid, Brown, Varcoe, Greenwood and Faz are all still young enough to play a part in the first half of the peak years of this group - not sure about Swan and Cloke). As they peak, the pies would be wise to top up as the hawks did with specified role players so as to maximize the peak years of this group.

_________________
Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk .......
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:41 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Their cherry picking of trades and free agency has been brilliant, they've gone for needs and done well.

The other under rated thing is that they have lost very few players seeking opportunities elsewhere, those in the VFL are willing to work their tail off to be available to crack a shot at getting in the seniors and potentially be a premiership player.

_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Piesnchess 

piesnchess


Joined: 09 Jun 2008


PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazza, thing is tho mate, try as they might , they will NOT replace outriight stars like hodge, mitchell, burgonyne, lake, lewis, hale, and even roughie and riolli in the not too distant future. They can trade their asses off, but you dont replace stars like that with rejects etc, it cant be done. Time and age will get them, its inevitable, it happened to the lions and cats, the cats only this season, age is inevitable, and they cannot be replaced by guys with equal talent. Period.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
ANNODAM Gemini

Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Eltham, VIC.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:56 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

perthmagpie wrote:
We have as many left footers.







Yeah, unfortunately some of our players seem to have 2 left feet!

_________________
WE WERE ROBBED, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, RIGHT IN FRONT OF MEEE!

N.Y METS, N.Y GIANTS, PENRITH PANTHERS & HOBART HURRICANES FAN.

WE ALL LOOK GOOD AT TRAINING, IT'S THE MATCHES THAT COUNT!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
makri Capricorn



Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Location: Clifton Hill

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:52 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

But Oracle Hine says anyone can learn how to kick. Look at the work in progress that is Cloke.
_________________
Magpie Jumper Gallery:
https://www.instagram.com/magpiejumpers/
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:07 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

perthmagpie wrote:
We have as many left footers.


No they are right footers, they just look like left footers

Sorry shoulda kept reading, beaten by both Madonna and Makri!

Hawthorn are lucky like Geelong were, bunch of good players who realise they are handsomely paid anyway, and value a premiership medal more than an extra $100-200,000. Crazy? Not really, they may get the money for longer

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group