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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:06 pm
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Forget the Middle East when oil tanks, it'll be Russia that fires up the Armata tanks and rolls on.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:08 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
Islam is not he only issue, it's just the one under discussion here. Your obsession with oil, as though it can be turned off quickly and that will solve the problems, is hard to understand, in my eyes.

No, that's just false according to any known serious understanding of the field, it just has vast dollars opposing it. Much like opposition to global warming, it's a fringe furphy outside funded interests.

We could start turning the tap off and turning up alternatives immediately and unproblematically and un-radically. It accords with everything we know about the relationship between economic change and social, and is the simplest handle we have on the problem. It is overwhelmingly rational to anyone with their heads in this millennium who has stopped pining for traditional manufacturing jobs and coal and steel works in the north!

(Unless you think it is a waste of time opposing powerful interests ipso facto, in which case there's no point even being in conversation, much like there's no point being in conversation if I don't assume free will. I don't think you do, but it's a natural trap when trying to be "realistic").

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:09 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Forget the Middle East when oil tanks, it'll be Russia that fires up the Armata tanks and rolls on.

Agree. So we'd better get to work on helping them transition. There are no enemies in a global economy of 10B people. There are temporary menaces, dangers and annoyances to put right.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:03 am
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pietillidie wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
Islam is not he only issue, it's just the one under discussion here. Your obsession with oil, as though it can be turned off quickly and that will solve the problems, is hard to understand, in my eyes.

No, that's just false according to any known serious understanding of the field.


Your definition of "known serious understanding" and mine is different. I'll take the qualified practitioners and industry strategic experts who spend their professional lives in this and have no axe to grind (the car companies will roll with whatever the technology offers).

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 12:21 am
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^But in this case the government has to do the heavy lifting for the car companies. Of course the car companies aren't responsible for implementing the policy which creates the shift which nudges alternatives along their current trajectory that bit quicker.

The cost of supporting the dysfunction and tyrannical control of these economies in national and domestic security, lost global trade and productivity, and market uncertainty due to regional instability would amount to some astronomical externality.

Car companies aren't responsible for that externality. Governments are. That's what governments are for; they do shite that individuals, groups of individuals or companies can't, like run legal systems and put a price on externalities.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:57 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
What happened in Koln on new year's eve is all over the papers in Europe. Lots of young men (1.1M this year) all at once, with few skills and few economic options, from a violent conflict and a culture with (let's be kind) difficult attitudes to women. What could possibly go wrong ?


From what I read Mug it is and was not only Koln but also Sweden, Finland, Vienna, Switzerland - and it seems from a distance that the authorities are deliberely denying or lying about the culprits and even worse seem to be suggesting that women " dress moderately" " keep men at arms length" WTF does that mean Rolling Eyes and don't go out alone - is that an accurate reflection?

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:40 am
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^From what I read, I found zero clearly-evidenced facts from reliable sources that would pass a contempt of court test. I went through them the other night, and there are contradictions, inconsistencies and houses of cards all through the reporting. I'm not saying there were no incidents, but German towns during the World Cup often got frighteningly violent, especially when Germany played Poland, with Cologne and Dortmund amongst the scarier cities in that context. So who exactly and what exactly and at what level *compared to other incidents by other groups amidst the drunken revelry* still warrants confirmation.

If you are going to discriminate by people, you need to be very clear of the facts. It's the only justification one has for isolating certain people, especially from crowds of drunken, bottle-smashing, violent revelers.

White German revelers scared the shite out of me often enough and were carted away by police regularly enough during the World Cup for me to be extraordinarily cautious here.

I am also extremely sceptical those same groups of very white Germans stood idly about watching these things happening without taking violent action themselves. Extremely sceptical, especially in those cities in the West, which are amongst the most thuggish.

I have no problem being proved wrong with serious facts in the overall policing context of the revelrous evening concerned.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:44 am
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When did you go them the other night and there contradictions inconsistencies and houses of cards all the reporting are contradictions inconsistencies and houses of cards all?
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 1:06 am
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/08/the-times-breitbart-london-brought-the-truth-about-cologne-to-the-global-public/
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 2:35 am
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Morrigu wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
What happened in Koln on new year's eve is all over the papers in Europe. Lots of young men (1.1M this year) all at once, with few skills and few economic options, from a violent conflict and a culture with (let's be kind) difficult attitudes to women. What could possibly go wrong ?


From what I read Mug it is and was not only Koln but also Sweden, Finland, Vienna, Switzerland - and it seems from a distance that the authorities are deliberely denying or lying about the culprits and even worse seem to be suggesting that women " dress moderately" " keep men at arms length" WTF does that mean Rolling Eyes and don't go out alone - is that an accurate reflection?


Afraid so, M. Sweden is now experiencing a serious backlash with the far-right anti-immigration party leading in the polls. In truth, the immigrants mostly behave very well, but when you get 1.1M of them in such a context, predominantly young men, there are going to be a lot of problems. What is deeply mysterious is why the elected leaders of these countries feel so free to change the character of their countries against the wishes of their populace.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 3:00 am
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Wokko wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/08/the-times-breitbart-london-brought-the-truth-about-cologne-to-the-global-public/

A link to a Breitbart article! Execute zem! Schnell! Schnell!

Any danger of you enumerating the known facts and reasoning through them carefully? Some of us don't take such airheaded tabloid nonsense left or right any more seriously than drunken pub talk.

On what planet does a sloppy, authoritarian approach to knowledge accord with your purported "libertarian" bent?

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:25 am
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pietillidie wrote:
Wokko wrote:
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/08/the-times-breitbart-london-brought-the-truth-about-cologne-to-the-global-public/

A link to a Breitbart article! Execute zem! Schnell! Schnell!

Any danger of you enumerating the known facts and reasoning through them carefully? Some of us don't take such airheaded tabloid nonsense left or right any more seriously than drunken pub talk.

On what planet does a sloppy, authoritarian approach to knowledge accord with your purported "libertarian" bent?


Stop being a <snip>, it directly refers and Links to an article in The Times.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:04 am
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So, an empty link void of evidenced facts to an empty link void of evidenced facts, just to waste twice as much of my time for zero gain. <snip - let's try to remain civil>
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HAL 

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Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:07 am
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I am not sure if I would do it that often.
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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:24 pm
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Women were recently banned from entering a Starbucks in the Saudi capital Riyadh, by the countrys religious police.

The incident occurred when a gender segregation wall (required by authorities at all restaurants in KSA) collapsed inside a branch of Starbucks in KSA.

Arabic language daily newspaper Al Weaam reports, the religious police barred women from the premises after a segregation wall collapsed several times in the coffee chain.

According to Al Weaam, Saudis Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice ordered the cafs management to not allow women on the premises, after finding the division wall collapsed during a routine inspection.

Management at the outlet claimed that the wall had collapsed several times due to customer stampedes.

Women trying to enter the Starbucks in Riyadh subsequently found a sign on the door, reading: "On order by the Commission please no women allowed in women can send in their drivers to buy for them.

http://www.arabianindustry.com/hospitality/news/2016/feb/2/women-banned-from-saudi-starbucks-5282927/

Well really they cant expect a vote and to be able to buy their own coffee Razz

Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice Laughing Laughing Laughing A whole century has passed these nuffies by Razz

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