 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Morrigu wrote: | | Australia isn't the only country to refuse Chris Brown a visa as Britain, Canada and New Zealand also declined. |
All conservative governments. It's certainly not a uniquely Australian problem. That doesn't mean we need to follow their lead.
| Morrigu wrote: | David Irving denied a visa - white yes?
Julien Blanc - visa cancelled - white yes?
Don't see an African- American trend myself - see a failed the documented character test for visa trend. |
Of the last five or six cases, Blanc was the only non-African-American, I think. That's quite a strike rate.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
 |
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Jeff Sparrow nails it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/25/banning-chris-brown-would-only-distract-from-the-fight-against-domestic-violence
| Quote: | Theres no doubt that Brown, convicted of punching and trying to strangle his then girlfriend Rihanna, is a nasty piece of work. Nor can anyone dispute the seriousness of violence against women in Australia. According to a much-quoted statistic, a woman is killed roughly once a week by a partner or former partner.
But the immigration department is not the solution.
Quite obviously, the perpetrators of domestic violence in Australia are everyday Australians, not foreign musicians. Theyre ordinary people husbands, partners, boyfriends. Theyre steeped in Australian culture. Theyre not brainwashed by American R&B or led astray by song lyrics.
Chris Brown is an extremely influential figure,explains a GetUp petition to the immigration minister, particularly among young people. Allowing his entry into Australia sends the message that the Turnbull government does not place significant weight and condemnation on mens violence against women.
Its difficult to imagine anyone seriously thinks a ban on Brown will diminish whatever influence he wields on young people who, by and large, dont look to border patrol for affirmation of their musical tastes.
As for sending a message, GetUp puts the situation entirely the wrong way around.
At best, a ban on Brown is a distraction, a cheap headline-grabbing stunt that takes the focus away from the real work and the allocation of real resources necessary to make women safe.
By emphasising the menace of a foreign entertainer, it obscures the real locus of violence: the nuclear family. Its much easier for politicians to denounce musicians than to acknowledge that most women are hurt or killed within their family, a fundamental social institution. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
So basically you're saying we should let famous people into the country even if they have recent convictions for violence.
If you want to prove your point name some white guys with recent convictions for violence who have been let in. Ozzy Osbourne may have admitted to things but there's been no conviction so it's not the same situation.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Jeff Sparrow nails it:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/25/banning-chris-brown-would-only-distract-from-the-fight-against-domestic-violence
| Quote: | Theres no doubt that Brown, convicted of punching and trying to strangle his then girlfriend Rihanna, is a nasty piece of work. Nor can anyone dispute the seriousness of violence against women in Australia. According to a much-quoted statistic, a woman is killed roughly once a week by a partner or former partner.
But the immigration department is not the solution.
Quite obviously, the perpetrators of domestic violence in Australia are everyday Australians, not foreign musicians. Theyre ordinary people husbands, partners, boyfriends. Theyre steeped in Australian culture. Theyre not brainwashed by American R&B or led astray by song lyrics.
Chris Brown is an extremely influential figure,explains a GetUp petition to the immigration minister, particularly among young people. Allowing his entry into Australia sends the message that the Turnbull government does not place significant weight and condemnation on mens violence against women.
Its difficult to imagine anyone seriously thinks a ban on Brown will diminish whatever influence he wields on young people who, by and large, dont look to border patrol for affirmation of their musical tastes.
As for sending a message, GetUp puts the situation entirely the wrong way around.
At best, a ban on Brown is a distraction, a cheap headline-grabbing stunt that takes the focus away from the real work and the allocation of real resources necessary to make women safe.
By emphasising the menace of a foreign entertainer, it obscures the real locus of violence: the nuclear family. Its much easier for politicians to denounce musicians than to acknowledge that most women are hurt or killed within their family, a fundamental social institution. |
|
He's still a ^&*^*% waste of oxygen, why do you want to let him in?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
The question is, why not? His fans want to see him perform, obviously. There's no public safety reason to keep him out. It's just grandstanding.
| stui magpie wrote: | So basically you're saying we should let famous people into the country even if they have recent convictions for violence.
If you want to prove your point name some white guys with recent convictions for violence who have been let in. Ozzy Osbourne may have admitted to things but there's been no conviction so it's not the same situation. |
I already did. Here's the relevant quote from the article:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/16/white-singers-deserve-the-same-scrutiny-for-sexism-as-snoop-dogg
| Quote: | Mtley Cre drummer Tommy Leeserved four months in prison after pleading no contest to spousal battery of his then-wife Pamela Anderson in 1998. The singer for Mtley Cre, Vince Neil, was arrested for domestic violence in 1984 and 2011. The band last toured Australia in 2013.
In the early 1990s, Axl Rose of Guns n Roses and his ex-wife Stephanie Seymoursuedeach other, both on claims of domestic violence. The case was settled out of court with Rose reportedly paying Seymour $400,000. Guns n Roses last toured Australia in 2013.
Former singer for the Stone Temple Pilots (who were last here in 2011), Scott Weiland, wasarrestedfor domestic violence in 2001. He last toured with the band in 2013.
|
Only one conviction there, apparently. But still, Lee served a longer sentence than Brown. Apart from a couple of arrests that he escaped conviction for, I'm not even sure what Waka Flocka did to warrant being denied entry.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Oh her. I have heard of her before. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Only one conviction so the rest are irrelevant.
The conviction was in 1998, he toured her in 2013, 15 years later.
So you still haven't provided any evidence of a white guy with a recent conviction who was let in.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I remember the only reason they allowed Mike Tyson in was that Fenech was going to be responsible for him. They were going to deny his entry because of his previous troubles.
There has been some wrestlers unable to obtain entry into the country as well, when there were tours going. Jeff Hardy is unable to go to the UK and Australia due to his drug convictions.
So it does seem that its not just Brown that has trouble touring Australia, of course that was due to drugs not domestic violence and they're not artists.
_________________
avg
https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
https://www.facebook.com/Davage |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | Only one conviction so the rest are irrelevant.
The conviction was in 1998, he toured her in 2013, 15 years later.
So you still haven't provided any evidence of a white guy with a recent conviction who was let in. |
Brown's was five years ago. Define recent.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I might be missing something here, but is this really the thin end of the wedge?
Are we worse off because of it?
Bigger fish to fry.
I'm more concerned they've voted in a "creation science" pollie in WA
- I suggest we deport him to the USA where he can be amongst like minded folk.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
| Post subject: | |
|
 I am desperate to prove that my point of view is right so cough up your definition Stui
too funny 
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^
LOL.
Well since you asked David, there used to be a legal test called "becoming of good Character" or something similar where a conviction (nb, not a charge) wasn't held against someone after 10 years.
So 5 years is recent, 13 years isn't.
Also note, Proto provided examples of a black man with a conviction being allowed in and a white man being banned.
40 love my way.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Hey, I wasn't the one who said that it mattered how long ago it happened. I honestly have no idea if they factor that in or if they should, but it's obviously a pretty arbitrary thing. And I'm not desperate to prove that there's a racial double standard; it just seemed that way and I wondered if it was true.
| watt price tully wrote: | I might be missing something here, but is this really the thin end of the wedge?
Are we worse off because of it? |
If he comes or if he doesn't? The answer is probably "no", either way.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I don't think the game's called until someone actually digs up some meaningful statistics. Neither of us have done that, so the game's been cancelled due to a rain of gut feelings.
I agree with your last point - better ten years than forever - but I would question the need to have any automatic exclusions for convicted crims. I dunno, I want to see a case for it. Logically, if they're safe to walk the streets at home, why should a foreign country be any different?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
