How many Syrian refugees should Australia take?

[David]

Actually, they have – look up "Christian domestic discipline" on YouTube. Alternatively, here's an article on the phenomenon:

http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/christian-domestic-discipline-spanking-jesus-marriage_n_3479646

This is a common thread running through all of the Abrahamic religions. Christianity, of course, always seems a little more modern in these respects because it has mostly been declawed in the West. What's important to realise that there is a substantial movement right now within Islam against views like this, and groups like HbT represent the religion's reactionary rear guard in the West, not the mainstream by any means.

Isn't it a little ironic that those most likely to fling up their hands in horror at this story – "look at this barbaric, irredeemable religion!" – are often the first to advocate that parents and teachers should still be allowed to hit children? The conservative mind is a strange and often contradictory thing.

[Mugwump]

[David]

Oh, come on Mugwump – you'll have to try harder than that! Try these verses from the New Testament (not an explicit command for domestic violence, but still...):

Ephesians 5:22-24:

[Mugwump]

[Mugwump]

^ and in the quotes you give above, the bit which commands a husband to beat his wife (cf the very express Chapter 4 of the Quran) is where, exactly ? I certainly do not have the immersion in the Bible that your upbringing gave you, but I seem to recall that a man is instructed to love his wife as he would his own body, and I recall nothing which licenses wife beating, even in the loonier bits.

Re rods and children, see above - and anyway, it's a different topic.

PS no argument that Biblical literalism is for fools, however. There is much beauty in the book and in JC's ethics, but it's not exactly an instruction manual, taken as a whole. And none of the mainstream churches seem to consider it literally obligatory. That is not the case within Islam.

[HAL]

Have you ever had the immersion in the Bible that your upbringing gave you but he or she seem to recall that a man is instructed to love his wife as he would his own body ? What specifically makes you think of that?

[think positive]

[David]

If anyone wants any evidence that morality is relative, this discussion is Exhibit A!

I personally think it's probably worse to hit a little child than an adult (force and consequential harm being equal), but I respect your opinion if you feel differently. I just hope you can appreciate the irony of condemning one as barbaric even while writing the kind of apologism for corporal punishment that many others in our society would find barbaric.

I don't mean to seem like I'm having a go at the Bible all the time – it does have a great verse about pointing out the speck in your brother's eye.

[think positive]

[David]

By the way, before boarding the outrage train, did anyone actually bother to watch the video in question?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/muslim-women-describe-how-men-10218040

Note the use of the phrase "should not cause pain", and the demonstration of the actual implements used, which seem almost purely ritualistic in nature – nothing to do with giving your wife a black eye.

TP, you say you once smacked your child so hard that you left a red mark on their leg – if what these women are saying is sincere, then a Muslim man doing that to his wife would be unacceptable. Again, I wish my Christian mother had been barbaric enough to hit me with a folded handkerchief!

I'm not defending the video, by the way: it is trivialising a serious problem in conservative religious communities and saying this sort of stuff is acceptable is probably the thin edge of the wedge. But the fact that this is causing such outrage while genuinely painful and humiliating discipline of children in the home is still shrugged at does seem a remarkable double standard to me.

[think positive]

[David]

I'm not twisting it, just repeating what you said. Did you watch the video above? Why do you presume that they're condoning serious domestic violence of the kind you suffered?

[think positive]

just watched it again, have you never been smacked with a wet twisted tea towel!! let alone a short stick, but hey, if your missus is happy to go along, all power to you!!

(ps check out your spot in this weeks team!!)

[David]

Did you see how small that stick was? I wasn't sure whether they were taking the piss or not.

[stui magpie]

Interesting

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/12/opinions/how-to-force-russias-hand-on-syria-hall/index.html?iid=ob_lockedrail_topeditorial