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| How many Syrian refugees should Australia take? |
| None |
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52% |
[ 21 ] |
| A few hundred |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| A few thousand |
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5% |
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| Over ten thousand |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| As many as possible |
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35% |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I am in Viccy Park. Where are you? |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Domestically, all the information we have shows you don't have to do anything but grant immigrants rights, support and a fair go because by the third generation they have basically assimilated anyhow. |
That is the funniest thing I think I have ever read - 
.......... Unless you were serious  |
Yes, like the information from the London tube bombings - the bombers were second generation not third, but I'd call that contrary evidence. |
Yeah, what's a generation here or or there in the life of an immigrant family?
When you get to year 10, we'll introduce you to Australian Bureau of Statistics. But don't worry yourselves about difficult things like that for now!
It really is sad to discover George W. Bush is missing both a daughter and a son! |
Are you talking immigrants, such as my family, who passed all the tests before being granted passage, asylum seekers, or refugees? |
Before answering, did you see phrase "third generation"?
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| A lot of damage can be done to a culture in two generations. Just amazes me the blind spot that all the bleeding heart progressives have for a violent, oppressive, expansionist religion like Islam. They'd be the first on the chopping block in Saudi or Iran (bit like the love for Communism, the smelly arts students don't seem to understand that it's the middle class intellectuals who are the first ones face down in a pit). |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| pietillidie wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Domestically, all the information we have shows you don't have to do anything but grant immigrants rights, support and a fair go because by the third generation they have basically assimilated anyhow. |
That is the funniest thing I think I have ever read -
.......... Unless you were serious |
Yes, like the information from the London tube bombings - the bombers were second generation not third, but I'd call that contrary evidence. |
Yeah, what's a generation here or or there in the life of an immigrant family?
When you get to year 10, we'll introduce you to Australian Bureau of Statistics. But don't worry yourselves about difficult things like that for now!
It really is sad to discover George W. Bush is missing both a daughter and a son! |
Are you talking immigrants, such as my family, who passed all the tests before being granted passage, asylum seekers, or refugees? |
Before answering, did you see phrase "third generation"? |
Yes I did.
Third generation would be considered citizens I would think. My kids are Australian citizens, not immigrants.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Mugwump and Wokko, the important point you're missing here is that the left has always championed the rights of disadvantaged groups. That's pretty much its raison d'etre. Opposing, say, a ban on the burqa is not some weird exercise in doublethink on our part; rather, it's a pretty obvious response to power dynamics and the fact that trying to solve one form of marginalisation through another form of marginalisation only makes everything worse.
A defence of the disadvantaged doesn't equate to identification, though. You can stand up for the rights of the mentally ill without arguing that mental illness is a positive, healthy phenomenon. And let's not forget that leftists, by and large, were the first to welcome news of the Arab Spring - clearly, defending the rights of Muslims is not the same as championing repressive theocracies.
| think positive wrote: | Wow wee gee. Golly me. This is getting spirited.
I really feel for the average Muslim living in, say point cook right now. (There is a lot of them) Those that are like me with Christianity. I don't go to church very often now the kids are not in a catholic school, but I still like to think He's looking out for me. I try to be Chrisian, as in treat others as you like to be treated. And yet certain people around me are getting right into an alternate Christianity, and telling everyone like me I'm not a true Christian because, well basically I'm not a bigot! And I don't condemn anyone a bit different from me.
That's what I really dislike about solid religion, it's like footy, your a Carlton supporter? Bloody scumbag. You left before the siren? Off with his head.
My gods a nicer God. As long as I try to do no harm to others, as long as I look out for my fellow man, (and living creatures) he lets me sleep at night.
I don't think my Fairy at the bottom of the garden is any more important than my neighbours fairy, he just dresses differently. (Unless he doesn't barrack for Collingwood!).
I strongly object to such, I'm politically correct terms such as "happy holiday", because I really can't see how the "merry Christmas" I grew up with, and love, and has such fond memories attached too (ok I'm not talking lunch with the whole clan here), is offensive to anyone else, any more than happy Hanukkah would bother me (it doesn't).
It's the return to using the good lords word, any lord, as a weapon to basically deprive a whole sex of human decency I can't abide by. Just as using the good lords word to attack gay people to me is bloody ridiculous. Live and let live. The more I hear about the horrendous treatment dished out to women in hard core Muslim States, OMG, and any man that might have the audacity to question THE WORD, it's madness. It's the way Hitler led his army, it's brain washing, and fear. |
Well said, Jo. On the last part, I'd love to watch some Middle-Eastern films with you someday, or even just give you a list of titles to check out. It's only fiction, but I feel like I've gained a lot of insight into, say, women's place in Iranian society, from that alone - both in terms of its very worst aspects and, more importantly, its perfectly mundane, everyday ones.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Anyhow, if not Muslims it would be Aborigines, or the unemployed, or China, or Russia, or Indonesia, or Indian students, or whatever. But the world progresses, regardless.
As far as it progressing faster, though, the focus has to be on ridding the Middle East and everywhere else of that bastardised oil economy so the old power centres which sustain the fundamentalism can be cracked open.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| It is an old world. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | Mugwump and Wokko, the important point you're missing here is that the left has always championed the rights of disadvantaged groups. That's pretty much its raison d'etre. Opposing, say, a ban on the burqa is not some weird exercise in doublethink on our part; rather, it's a pretty obvious response to power dynamics and the fact that trying to solve one form of marginalisation through another form of marginalisation only makes everything worse.
A defence of the disadvantaged doesn't equate to identification, though. You can stand up for the rights of the mentally ill without arguing that mental illness is a positive, healthy phenomenon. And let's not forget that leftists, by and large, were the first to welcome news of the Arab Spring - clearly, defending the rights of Muslims is not the same as championing repressive theocracies.
| think positive wrote: | Wow wee gee. Golly me. This is getting spirited.
I really feel for the average Muslim living in, say point cook right now. (There is a lot of them) Those that are like me with Christianity. I don't go to church very often now the kids are not in a catholic school, but I still like to think He's looking out for me. I try to be Chrisian, as in treat others as you like to be treated. And yet certain people around me are getting right into an alternate Christianity, and telling everyone like me I'm not a true Christian because, well basically I'm not a bigot! And I don't condemn anyone a bit different from me.
That's what I really dislike about solid religion, it's like footy, your a Carlton supporter? Bloody scumbag. You left before the siren? Off with his head.
My gods a nicer God. As long as I try to do no harm to others, as long as I look out for my fellow man, (and living creatures) he lets me sleep at night.
I don't think my Fairy at the bottom of the garden is any more important than my neighbours fairy, he just dresses differently. (Unless he doesn't barrack for Collingwood!).
I strongly object to such, I'm politically correct terms such as "happy holiday", because I really can't see how the "merry Christmas" I grew up with, and love, and has such fond memories attached too (ok I'm not talking lunch with the whole clan here), is offensive to anyone else, any more than happy Hanukkah would bother me (it doesn't).
It's the return to using the good lords word, any lord, as a weapon to basically deprive a whole sex of human decency I can't abide by. Just as using the good lords word to attack gay people to me is bloody ridiculous. Live and let live. The more I hear about the horrendous treatment dished out to women in hard core Muslim States, OMG, and any man that might have the audacity to question THE WORD, it's madness. It's the way Hitler led his army, it's brain washing, and fear. |
Well said, Jo. On the last part, I'd love to watch some Middle-Eastern films with you someday, or even just give you a list of titles to check out. It's only fiction, but I feel like I've gained a lot of insight into, say, women's place in Iranian society, from that alone - both in terms of its very worst aspects and, more importantly, its perfectly mundane, everyday ones. |
cheers, give me a couple of titles
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Sure!
(I hope people won't mind, but I think this is relevant to the thread at hand, because our understanding and capacity for empathy play a large role in how we deal with issues like accepting refugees, so these recommendations are for everyone.)
A Separation: A husband and wife who have been separated for a while try to get divorced, but things spiral out of control when a housemaid makes an allegation of abuse. A great thriller, really keeps you on the edge of your seat.
The Circle: about five Iranian women who encounter various forms of persecution. One of the best films about sexism and discrimination in that country.
Wadjda: A Saudi film about a 10 year old girl who wants to ride a bicycle. Probably one of the more accessible films here, I think you'd love it TP.
The Wind Will Carry Us: A documentary crew from the city visits an Iranian country town to report on its strange funeral customs, but the old woman at the centre of their story won't die.
The White Balloon: A little girl goes to buy a goldfish but loses her money down the drain. This was one of the first Iranian films I ever watched, and I really loved it.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | A lot of damage can be done to a culture in two generations. Just amazes me the blind spot that all the bleeding heart progressives have for a violent, oppressive, expansionist religion like Islam. They'd be the first on the chopping block in Saudi or Iran. |
Is there a more irrelevant, pre-scientific and just plain dumb incantation outside ISIS prayer meetings?
The only amazing thing is how many times people can explain to you the hard, factual, scientific constraints of the Homo sapiens cognitive-emotional-environmental nexus without you grasping it.
It's like explaining the Blessed Trinity to a Mormon: "Yeah, but I still count three, not one."
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | A lot of damage can be done to a culture in two generations. Just amazes me the blind spot that all the bleeding heart progressives have for a violent, oppressive, expansionist religion like Islam. They'd be the first on the chopping block in Saudi or Iran. |
Is there a more irrelevant, pre-scientific and just plain dumb incantation outside ISIS prayer meetings?
The only amazing thing is how many times people can explain to you the hard, factual, scientific constraints of the Homo sapiens cognitive-emotional-environmental nexus without you grasping it.
It's like explaining the Blessed Trinity to a Mormon: "Yeah, but I still count three, not one." |
It's only you spouting that <snip>, most sentient individuals can see the damage that Islam does to Western culture (see France, UK, Germany). They've only been trying to conquer Europe for 1000 years or so, and it's you and your ilk who are just handing it over. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | Sure!
(I hope people won't mind, but I think this is relevant to the thread at hand, because our understanding and capacity for empathy play a large role in how we deal with issues like accepting refugees, so these recommendations are for everyone.)
A Separation: A husband and wife who have been separated for a while try to get divorced, but things spiral out of control when a housemaid makes an allegation of abuse. A great thriller, really keeps you on the edge of your seat.
The Circle: about five Iranian women who encounter various forms of persecution. One of the best films about sexism and discrimination in that country.
Wadjda: A Saudi film about a 10 year old girl who wants to ride a bicycle. Probably one of the more accessible films here, I think you'd love it TP.
The Wind Will Carry Us: A documentary crew from the city visits an Iranian country town to report on its strange funeral customs, but the old woman at the centre of their story won't die.
The White Balloon: A little girl goes to buy a goldfish but loses her money down the drain. This was one of the first Iranian films I ever watched, and I really loved it. |
Good stuff, David. I bought Wadjda and The Wind will Carry us on
Amazon. The White Ballon is out of stock, unfortunately. Will take a look next weekend ! Thanks
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | A lot of damage can be done to a culture in two generations. Just amazes me the blind spot that all the bleeding heart progressives have for a violent, oppressive, expansionist religion like Islam. They'd be the first on the chopping block in Saudi or Iran. |
Is there a more irrelevant, pre-scientific and just plain dumb incantation outside ISIS prayer meetings?
The only amazing thing is how many times people can explain to you the hard, factual, scientific constraints of the Homo sapiens cognitive-emotional-environmental nexus without you grasping it.
It's like explaining the Blessed Trinity to a Mormon: "Yeah, but I still count three, not one." |
It's only you spouting that <snip>, most sentient individuals can see the damage that Islam does to Western culture (see France, UK, Germany). They've only been trying to conquer Europe for 1000 years or so, and it's you and your ilk who are just handing it over. |
Well done on your calm reply.
You know you see so much of this on social media, the worry (fear?) that Islam is purposely being infiltrated into communities until they become the majority. And yet the evidence is there to support it, so you have to wonder. Then if you do like France and ban the burkas your racist, even though religion isn't a race. Good on France for standing their ground.
I really feel for the average Muslim who comes here and just wants to get on with it, get a job, have a family build a life, and go to -church- on Sunday. I'm guessing they don't want the hard core stuff thrust down their throats anymore than the rest of us do. Be it Christianity, or Islam. And yet because Islam is the incoming, political correctness seams to mean we have to give their "traditions' more consideration than our own. That's wrong.
Merry Christmas.
In the mean time, real refugees, those literally in fear of their lives, get left behind because of the opportunistic section running riot across Europe right now. That's the way I see it.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ i guess the real question here is a very practical one ; What disturbs most of us, I think, is (1) any significant level of Islamisation of our society ; and (2) the risk of Islamic terrorism from the small minority of Muslims who are disposed to commit it, and the far larger minority who justify it (eg the 25% of British Muslims who said they "sympathised" with the Charlie Hebdo killings, and the 10% who said directly that CH "deserved it"). You can look at the 25% as a glass three-quarters full, but if 25% of our community sympathised with murder on comparable grounds, i think we'd recognise that something was fundamentally broken.
In the former case, i think the matter of how societies are changed by Islamic immigration needs study, before we commit to significantly more of it. On the second point, I would need to see an absence of Islamic terror over an extended period before I'd be prepared to open new avenues to significant Islamic immigration. Until Islam is thoroughly cleansed of terrorism as a political strategy, I am afraid i prefer such tough realism to political violence in our societies.
_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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