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| How many Syrian refugees should Australia take? |
| None |
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52% |
[ 21 ] |
| A few hundred |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| A few thousand |
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5% |
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| Over ten thousand |
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5% |
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| As many as possible |
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35% |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Istanbul technically sits astride Asia and Europe, but the bulk of Turkey lies in Asia, and when we think of people entering 'Europe' we're much more likely to see countries like Bulgaria or Greece as the entry points, not Turkey (which, in any case, is already rife with extremists, refugees or no refugees). Perhaps if they get accepted into the EU, those lines will become a little more blurred.
The issue we're discussing here is primarily migration into Europe and the response of EU countries to that phenomenon. Hence why it's important for people to realise that the massive crimes we've seen in Europe of late the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, as well as the unrelated assaults in Cologne have not been caused by this refugee influx. Those of us who actually pick up a newspaper once in a while would do well to remind people of that fact, because it's way too easy for misinformation to spread and foster the growth of hatred and intolerance directed at refugees.
| Wokko wrote: |
Oliver is an unfunny dick. |
I'm not surprised he annoys you, considering he makes your preferred candidate look stupid on a regular basis. 
Here's the whole video, by the way:
https://youtu.be/TzOYtFK4FDQ
Who's going to pay for it?
A) Nobody, because it's not going to happen;
Or,
B) Americans, so that they can have a tacky, very expensive, possibly visible-from-space monument as a reminder for many generations of the follies of voting a tinpot buffoon into the White House. It could be used in public service ads: "Remember the wall? Next time, vote with your prefrontal cortex."
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/24/poland-reneges-on-pledge-to-take-7000-migrants-following-brussels-attack/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social
Poland says No More. |
The new Polish Government makes Donald Trump seem like a civil rights lawyer - I say this without exaggeration.
Under the extreme right wing current government one can be jailed now for 5 years if you mention the obvious that is that the history of Poland included Poles who "took part, organised or was co-responsible for the crimes of the Third Reich".
They are absolving themselves for their active role in the mass murder of Jews in Poland.
This is merely the tip of the current Polish governments rules, laws & decrees.
Poland's New Government Looks to Rewrite Polish Role in the Holocaust
The new government's conservative line is trying to portray Poland as a victim of the Nazis, with, among others, a move by the justice minister seeking to make use of term 'Polish death camp' illegal.
Polish historian may be forced to return state honor for views on Holocaust
Poland seeks punishment for use of 'polish death camps' phrase
...
The new Polish government has presented a right-wing and conservative line from its very first day in office last October. Now it seems to be trying to reshape the collective memory concerning the countrys part in the Holocaust.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.703594
There are many other laws this shocking government is passing that would make a libertarian shriek in horror (see new surveillance laws)
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | Istanbul technically sits astride Asia and Europe, but the bulk of Turkey lies in Asia, and when we think of people entering 'Europe' we're much more likely to see countries like Bulgaria or Greece as the entry points, not Turkey (which, in any case, is already rife with extremists, refugees or no refugees). Perhaps if they get accepted into the EU, those lines will become a little more blurred.
The issue we're discussing here is primarily migration into Europe and the response of EU countries to that phenomenon. Hence why it's important for people to realise that the massive crimes we've seen in Europe of late the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, as well as the unrelated assaults in Cologne have not been caused by this refugee influx. Those of us who actually pick up a newspaper once in a while would do well to remind people of that fact, because it's way too easy for misinformation to spread and foster the growth of hatred and intolerance directed at refugees. |
Nonsense - the bulk of refugees are arriving in Greece on boats that set sail from Turkey!! Hence the massive bribes the EU are paying to try and stop the massive influx into Greece from Turkey!
You can keep trying but the fact is extremists have wandered into Europe through Greece posing as migrants - and no one has any idea how many more there may be that are yet to be identified.
No one is blaming the actual refugees for this - the extremists have taken advantage of the massive numbers and the ridiculously incompetent and ineffectual almost non existent screening.
And there has indeed been significant issues with crimes especially sexual assaults committed by recently arrived migrants in many European countries - Austria, Sweden, Germany, Finland.
Maybe those of you who actually pick up a newspaper once in a while should actually read it rather than using it to swat flies!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I keep coming back but no one has a reply for you!
Love it!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Why don't you give it a crack? Play devil's advocate for a change and give me a rest.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Why don't you give it a crack? Play devil's advocate for a change and give me a rest. |
Um.......Because I agree with her ?! 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Well, yeah, that's what would make it devil's advocacy.
Here is how I would respond to that post:
1. Of course a lot of migrants are coming via Turkey. Geographically, it makes a lot of sense. That wasn't really the point of what I was saying, though.
2. No one has any idea of how many extremists are posing as refugees because, at this point, it's an essentially theoretical problem. The worry is that some extremists might do that. We don't know how many, and we don't know if it's a higher percentage than the number of extremists already living in European countries.
In any large mass of people, you are likely to get 0.001% murderers, 0.1% rapists and so on. Why shouldn't there be the same percentage of Islamic extremists? And is that any reason to deny everyone else access?
3. Again, a theoretical problem. 'The extremists' may have taken advantage of open borders. Without evidence, this is just conjecture.
4. An unrelated problem, and I hope people realise that it is unrelated. We've discussed this at length elsewhere, but we need data to properly assess how bad this problem is and whether Syrian refugees even have anything to do with it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | Well, yeah, that's what would make it devil's advocacy.
Here is how I would respond to that post:
1. Of course a lot of migrants are coming via Turkey. Geographically, it makes a lot of sense. That wasn't really the point of what I was saying, though.
2. No one has any idea of how many extremists are posing as refugees because, at this point, it's an essentially theoretical problem. The worry is that some extremists might do that. We don't know how many, and we don't know if it's a higher percentage than the number of extremists already living in European countries.
In any large mass of people, you are likely to get 0.001% murderers, 0.1% rapists and so on. Why shouldn't there be the same percentage of Islamic extremists? And is that any reason to deny everyone else access?
3. Again, a theoretical problem. 'The extremists' may have taken advantage of open borders. Without evidence, this is just conjecture.
4. An unrelated problem, and I hope people realise that it is unrelated. We've discussed this at length elsewhere, but we need data to properly assess how bad this problem is and whether Syrian refugees even have anything to do with it. |
Jeeezus fecking KRIST. You reckon religious nuts believe in the fairy at the end of the garden
1 bad egg, just 1 terrorist can kill 10,20, 100, 200, 1000, are you willing to line your family up as collateral damage?
No one is saying the refugees have anything to do with it, they won't know who the $%$ers are either! You can bet your arse if they did they would be jumping up and down saying over here over here, what better way to guarantee you and your wife, ex wife, Aunty Mary, cousin joe, six pigs and a partridge in a pear tree, would get immediate access to any country they wanted?
You can also bet your arse that there is extremists hidden in those dirty great winding queues of people. And the proper checks need to be in place.
Balance is also needed. You can't just let every person in. You can't out number the locals. It's just plain wrong. The locals have a lifestyle that should not be totally decimated by new arrivals bringing their beliefs and cultures in.
It's a horrible horrible situation. There is no easy answer. But blindly opening the gates is opening the hatch to hell and letting the devil out. It's just dumb. For so many more reasons than just a feral terrorist or two.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I don't think anyone is advocating blindly opening the gates at the moment. I'm happy for there to be some form of processing and discrimination between refugees and non-refugees. What's concerning is the increasing number of people, some of them in positions of power, advocating blindly closing the gates.
Nobody's suggesting that the 'locals' be outnumbered. If we let in ten times the number we've committed to (say, 120,000), we'd only be increasing our population by 0.5%. Hardly being 'outnumbered', is it?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| And why not? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | I don't think anyone is advocating blindly opening the gates at the moment. I'm happy for there to be some form of processing and discrimination between refugees and non-refugees. What's concerning is the increasing number of people, some of them in positions of power, advocating blindly closing the gates.
Nobody's suggesting that the 'locals' be outnumbered. If we let in ten times the number we've committed to (say, 120,000), we'd only be increasing our population by 0.5%. Hardly being 'outnumbered', is it? |
Depends where you put them.
Put large numbers of migrants in one area and you create ghetto's and enclaves.
Put large numbers of migrants who already demonstrate difficulty in assimilating into western culture in one area and you create a timebomb.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't think anyone is advocating blindly opening the gates at the moment. I'm happy for there to be some form of processing and discrimination between refugees and non-refugees. What's concerning is the increasing number of people, some of them in positions of power, advocating blindly closing the gates.
Nobody's suggesting that the 'locals' be outnumbered. If we let in ten times the number we've committed to (say, 120,000), we'd only be increasing our population by 0.5%. Hardly being 'outnumbered', is it? |
Depends where you put them.
Put large numbers of migrants in one area and you create ghetto's and enclaves.
Put large numbers of migrants who already demonstrate difficulty in assimilating into western culture in one area and you create a timebomb. |
Footscray Springvale
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't think anyone is advocating blindly opening the gates at the moment. I'm happy for there to be some form of processing and discrimination between refugees and non-refugees. What's concerning is the increasing number of people, some of them in positions of power, advocating blindly closing the gates.
Nobody's suggesting that the 'locals' be outnumbered. If we let in ten times the number we've committed to (say, 120,000), we'd only be increasing our population by 0.5%. Hardly being 'outnumbered', is it? |
Depends where you put them.
Put large numbers of migrants in one area and you create ghetto's and enclaves.
Put large numbers of migrants who already demonstrate difficulty in assimilating into western culture in one area and you create a timebomb. |
Footscray Springvale |
Tick......tick.......tick
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't think anyone is advocating blindly opening the gates at the moment. I'm happy for there to be some form of processing and discrimination between refugees and non-refugees. What's concerning is the increasing number of people, some of them in positions of power, advocating blindly closing the gates.
Nobody's suggesting that the 'locals' be outnumbered. If we let in ten times the number we've committed to (say, 120,000), we'd only be increasing our population by 0.5%. Hardly being 'outnumbered', is it? |
Depends where you put them.
Put large numbers of migrants in one area and you create ghetto's and enclaves.
Put large numbers of migrants who already demonstrate difficulty in assimilating into western culture in one area and you create a timebomb. |
Footscray Springvale |
Lakemba 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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