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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | ^ sorry, should I have said "libertarian"???
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enough of the political persuasion analysis. Our fans for years have suffered from "player envy" which dulls one's ability to make rational list improvement decisions.
I am not saying Frost and Seedsman don't have redeeming qualities, however they'll never be elite A graders given their inherent limitations. Aish more likely shall be one and Treloar already is. The Hawks are the benchmark and with unemotional allegiance they would have:
A Graders:
* Roughead
* S Mitchell
* L Hodge
* Breust
* Gibson
* Smith
* Gunston
* Lewis
* Rioli
* Birchall
Whereas with a true assessment of our list we have only:
* Pendlebury
* Swan
* Sidebottom
(Cloke hasn't been since 2013)
So we need a core of A graders that amounts to 8-10 minimum similar to halcyon years of 2010/11. As the Hawks have proven
this can only be obtained with trading as one first rounder at the draft doesn't lend itself to such an outcome.
So whether its Frost/Seedsman or Fasolo/Blair or Goldsack/Seedsman, the notion of trading B grade currency footballers for an A grade acquisition should be explored every year especially if we have certain players surplus to requirements.
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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This thread is confirmation for mine that inxs88 is a troll or has some sort of mental imparment.
Keep fishing |
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dalyc 
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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This thread and the other threads which deal with trading Collingwood players makes me ask the question do we see ourselves as a football club any more or are we a franchise.
if we see ourselves as a football club then an important part of being a club is loyalty to the players and some continuity in terms of the make up of the team. If we see ourselves as a franchise then all questions of loyalty to the players no longer exist.
My view as sentimental as it is is that the Collingwood football club is a club and therefore we need to treat the players as more than commodities to be bought and sold and traded.
Of course it's clearly not as cut and dried or as black and white excuse the pun. I do believe though as soon as we forego all questions of loyalty to the players then we open up the situation where the players will have no loyalty whatsoever to the club.
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Four legged animals good, two legged animals better |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| dalyc wrote: | This thread and the other threads which deal with trading Collingwood players makes me ask the question do we see ourselves as a football club any more or are we a franchise.
if we see ourselves as a football club then an important part of being a club is loyalty to the players and some continuity in terms of the make up of the team. If we see ourselves as a franchise then all questions of loyalty to the players no longer exist.
My view as sentimental as it is is that the Collingwood football club is a club and therefore we need to treat the players as more than commodities to be bought and sold and traded.
Of course it's clearly not as cut and dried or as black and white excuse the pun. I do believe though as soon as we forego all questions of loyalty to the players then we open up the situation where the players will have no loyalty whatsoever to the club. |
Nice idealism but very 1970's. The game has changed with free agency, draft and salary caps. We as a club copped it 12 months ago re the Beams walkout so all I am doing is adjusting expectations and circumstances to what is the modern day reality. Two words "Stevie Johnson".
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| dalyc wrote: | This thread and the other threads which deal with trading Collingwood players makes me ask the question do we see ourselves as a football club any more or are we a franchise.
if we see ourselves as a football club then an important part of being a club is loyalty to the players and some continuity in terms of the make up of the team. If we see ourselves as a franchise then all questions of loyalty to the players no longer exist.
My view as sentimental as it is is that the Collingwood football club is a club and therefore we need to treat the players as more than commodities to be bought and sold and traded.
Of course it's clearly not as cut and dried or as black and white excuse the pun. I do believe though as soon as we forego all questions of loyalty to the players then we open up the situation where the players will have no loyalty whatsoever to the club. |
Agree and many players also like being one club players and like being part of a good organisation
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| matrix10 wrote: | This thread is confirmation for mine that inxs88 is a troll or has some sort of mental imparment.
Keep fishing |
Pretty disappointed that you would "play the man card" here Matrix. I read your posts and find a lot of them insightful and some not so much, yet wouldn't pull out comments such as those you put forward. Any post I put out is purely opinion but at least backed up with constructive arguments.
I've been going since 1977 and seen many eras of the Pies, many botched trades and the shift from what was a hobby sport for players to what is fully professional. Players that have walked out of the club for $$, opportunity or we effectively turfed whom ended up at competing clubs include:
* Des Tuddenham (1972)
* Peter McKenna (1976)
* Len Thompson (1979)
* Max Richardson (1979)
* Peter Moore (1982)
* Rene Kink (1983)
* Billy Picken (1984)
* Peter McCormack (1985)
* Greg Phillips (end of 1986)
* Bruce Abernethy (end of 1986)
* Geoff Raines (start of 1986)
* Mike Richardson (start of 1986)
* Mark Williams (1986)
* Andrew Schauble (2000)
* Paul Williams (2001)
* Nick Davis (end of 2002)
* Chris Tarrant (2006)
* Dale Thomas (2013)
* Dayne Beams (2014)
* Heritier Lumumba (2014)
On the opposite side, Collingwood have attracted players for the same reasons above:
* Sam Kekovich ((1977)
* Laurie Sandilands (1978)
* Kevin Morris (1978)
* Russell Ohlsen (1979)
* David Young (1979)
* Graeme Allan (1981)
* Warwick Irwin (1981)
* Graeme Teasdale (1982)
* David Cloke (1983)
* Geoff Raines (1983)
* Shane Morwood (1983)
* Bruce Abernethy (1984)
* Glen McLean (1984)
* Brian Taylor (1985)
* Greg Smith (1985)
* Paul Morwood (1987)
* Murray Wrensted (1989)
* Gary Pert (1992)
* Brad Hardie (1992)
* Barry Mitchell (1992)
* Nathan Buckley (1994)
* Dermott Brereton (1995)
* Richard Osborne (1997)
* Anthony Rocca (1997)
* Paul Licuria (1999)
* Shane O'Bree (2000)
* Jarrod Molloy (2001)
* Shane Wakelin (2001)
* Brodie Holland (2001)
* James Clement (2001)
* Shane Woewodin (2003)
* Paul Medhurst (2007)
* Luke Ball (2010)
* Darren Jolly (2010)
* Andrew Krakouer (2011)
* Taylor Adams (2014)
* Travis Varcoe (2015)
* Jack Crisp (2015)
* Levi Greenwood (2015)
As evidenced, we have lost icons to other clubs and secured ultimate champions from other clubs. Unfortunately "blind loyalty" doesn't exist anymore.
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| neil wrote: | | dalyc wrote: | This thread and the other threads which deal with trading Collingwood players makes me ask the question do we see ourselves as a football club any more or are we a franchise.
if we see ourselves as a football club then an important part of being a club is loyalty to the players and some continuity in terms of the make up of the team. If we see ourselves as a franchise then all questions of loyalty to the players no longer exist.
My view as sentimental as it is is that the Collingwood football club is a club and therefore we need to treat the players as more than commodities to be bought and sold and traded.
Of course it's clearly not as cut and dried or as black and white excuse the pun. I do believe though as soon as we forego all questions of loyalty to the players then we open up the situation where the players will have no loyalty whatsoever to the club. |
Agree and many players also like being one club players and like being part of a good organisation |
idealism
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Cuthbert Collingwood 
Once was on fire, now all at sea
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Location: The BBC (Brunswick Bowling Club)
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Cuthbert Collingwood wrote: | ^ sorry, should I have said "libertarian"???
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enough of the political persuasion analysis. Our fans for years have suffered from "player envy" which dulls one's ability to make rational list improvement decisions.
I am not saying Frost and Seedsman don't have redeeming qualities, however they'll never be elite A graders given their inherent limitations. Aish more likely shall be one and Treloar already is. The Hawks are the benchmark and with unemotional allegiance they would have:
A Graders:
* Roughead
* S Mitchell
* L Hodge
* Breust
* Gibson
* Smith
* Gunston
* Lewis
* Rioli
* Birchall
Whereas with a true assessment of our list we have only:
* Pendlebury
* Swan
* Sidebottom
(Cloke hasn't been since 2013)
So we need a core of A graders that amounts to 8-10 minimum similar to halcyon years of 2010/11. As the Hawks have proven
this can only be obtained with trading as one first rounder at the draft doesn't lend itself to such an outcome.
So whether its Frost/Seedsman or Fasolo/Blair or Goldsack/Seedsman, the notion of trading B grade currency footballers for an A grade acquisition should be explored every year especially if we have certain players surplus to requirements. |
I appreciate an honest response to a troll baiting question and I do believe in your passion for the pies. But mate these things take time, Bucks is in it for the good of the club and if we can't believe in him what's the point of it all?l we have a competent, intelligent and driven coach who is committed to excellence and playing a very attractive brand of footy. Currently, I trust in bucks and believe that we are in a fantastic position for our long term future. McGuire and Malthouse started it, and Buckley can do exactly what we need and want for our future. Believe
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McRae for Governor-General! |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Agreed Cuthbert but my thread was about acquiring A grade talent via the trade period via an aggressive trade. Bucks I believe in albeit he has more to learn and have never posted negatively about him. Insofar as today is concerned- SHIT!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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