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Pass mark for Nathan Buckley in 2016

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In order to gain a contract extension what does Collingwood have to achieve at a minimum in 2016?
Win a final
27%
 27%  [ 24 ]
Make finals
50%
 50%  [ 44 ]
10 or more wins
5%
 5%  [ 5 ]
Give him a contract extension now and reassess at the end of 2017
17%
 17%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 88

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:22 am
Post subject: Pass mark for Nathan Buckley in 2016Reply with quote

Sorry but I just couldn't resist getting a feel of what your typical Collingwood member and supporter saw as the minimum requirement for the side to reach next year in order to justify a Buckley coaching extension beyond next season.

I understand what we witnessed last week was not the best representation of our team this season but even so when you have 10 more inside 50's and still lose by 15 goals something is clearly not working with your game plan.

When you get beaten by Melbourne with your season on the line one wonders about the mindset of the players.

When you've lost 8 out of your last 9 and about to miss finals again in what way do you deserve a contract extension?

He's signed to the end of 2016 so why the need?

Coaches should stop being so precious about it and just get on with the job they're paid very well to do.

We're a professional football club, striving for the best people and outcomes in a results driven industry.

Makes finals next year and you'll get your justifiable contract extension Bucks and everyone will be wrapped for you.

Don't then start looking for another job (miss on percentage I might be willing to let it slide Wink).


P.S-Surely Ed is smart enough to sniff the mood of the members the majority of I assume would prefer any talk of contract extensions be put on hold until late in our 2016 season.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:35 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

When you've finished where we've finished two years in a row, simply making the finals is enough. I would expect him to receive a new contract if that happens, because, at least on a superficial level, it would mean we're on the way back up.

If we finish next year in the same position or, god forbid, worse, it's a harder call to make. The club will just have to make a clear-eyed assessment of his future capabilities and make a decision based on that.

Having said all that, a coach's quality only has a slight relationship with win/loss ratios and ladder positions. That's what makes this poll a little shallow – it should never be about winning x number of games. If Clinton Young hadn't dropped that mark against Gold Coast last year and we'd snuck into the finals as a result, would that have made Buckley a better coach? Obviously not. No club would (or at least should) make a decision based on something so superficial.

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perthmagpie Aries



Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:58 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

13-14 wins, 120% and win a final. Nothing less. There is far too much talent on our list for anything less to be acceptable. If we recruit Treloar and Aish then it it us an absolute must. These guys are all first rounders:

DeGoey
Pendlebury
Aish?
Treloar?
Scharenberg
Moore
Reid
Sidebottom
Brown
Freeman
Adams
Karnezis
Grundy
Broomhead
Kennedy

On top of those Buckley will have Swan, Cloke, Elliott, Maynard, Marsh, Oxley, Seedsman, Abbott, Williams, Greenwood, Ransay and Witts. There is oodles of talent there. It's a coach's dream to be honest.

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perthmagpie Aries



Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:17 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoops forgot we have Varcoe and Langdon too.
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:31 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben Reid doesn't get a mention?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:29 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:

Having said all that, a coach's quality only has a slight relationship with win/loss ratios and ladder positions. That's what makes this poll a little shallow – it should never be about winning x number of games. If Clinton Young hadn't dropped that mark against Gold Coast last year and we'd snuck into the finals as a result, would that have made Buckley a better coach? Obviously not. No club would (or at least should) make a decision based on something so superficial.


Agree, David. WL ratios do matter, but equally what matters will be something that we, as fans, can barely discern - the confidence and development of key players and the quality of the feeling in the club. What Cam Mooney said is wise, and it's rooted in how football really works at this level. Young players take time, young teams take time, and they eventually click, as long as they continue to believe. Sometimes it can be hard to know just when it'll happen. That's why i'm in the review at end 2017 camp, unless i see evidence of a player revolt in the meantime. Richmond could have dumped Hardwick any time in the last few years. That they did not suggests to me that they have learned from their historic mistakes, amd we should learn from their mistakes as well.

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qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:08 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Swoop this is a hard one mate. Before the past couple weeks I was firmly in give him a new deal before season end for 3/4yrs to see the job through to completion.
I was very happy with our efforts against the likes of Hawks Port Freo Tigers West Coast losing 5 games by less than 2 goals against the highly fancied sides and form sides gave me real optimism.
I could forgive the Bulldogs game as they were on some sort of run. But the games against the scum and demons set alarm bells off for me. Then we had the complete meltdown in th last term against the Tigers.
Now I've seen it happen to a lot of teams this year when a side gets on a roll and can kick 7/8/9 goals in the blink of a eyelid. Freo did it to west coast, Hawks did it to Sydney and several other sides and I can't remember who it was but someone had a similar run against the Hawks earlier in the season. So it can happen some days to the best of team.
My concern centres around our ability to change things up during a game and the players to be able to fully commit to a game style that can win close games and more importantly finals.
Yes we are young in terms of experience and we have youth on every line so it's a learning curve in many ways.
I'm happy to see guys like Crisp, DeGoey, Moore, Scharenberg, Langdon, Frost, Williams, Grundy, Witts, Sinclair, Elliott get games as I see them very involved in our next premiership tilt.
I would hate to get half way through next season be around the 8-3 mark again and then have the media create a circus around whether or not Bucks is getting a new deal and have that impact on the playing group.
Conversely I'm torn on rewarding Bucks with a new deal now as I don't see a hell of a lot improvement in our basic skill set and game style.
At 8-3 we were manic in our pressure and hard to play against even when we lost. My question would be can our players sustain that sort of style for the whole season ? Can the players be or are the players fit enough to do this for an entire season ? Did we come out of the gate to hard the past 2 seasons burning up our energy stores and have nothing left in the tank for the second half of the season ? How many players who have played 10+ games this season who had interrupted preseason and has that impacted on our performances the longer the season has gone on ?
We did it in 2010/11 but our age/experience profile of the players was very different. We had a very strong core of players with 125 + games and then added the likes of Sidey & Beams. Now our age profile puts us around 60-80 game ave per player so really we are 2 seasons from being in that same zone.

The other part of the puzzle is do we have the right assistant/ line coaches in place to get the best out of the talent pool we have assembled plus hoping to add too ? I'm not sold on Harvey still. I think we need to search out the best available and get them now to support and work with Bucks. I would love to see Chocco back hate seeing him that ugly black and gold slash kills me. He would be a great sounding board for Bucks and we know he is a magpie at heart. I doubt we will get him but it would be great. If not him why not chase s Worsfold he isn't out of the game long and has a good understanding of it. Let's put the best around him give him every chance to succeed.

It's a difficult decision and I don't envy Eddie and the board having to make it.
So if I was in their shoes right now and had to make the decision I would ...........

Give Bucks a new 2yr deal with a 2yr extension option if set criteria is met. This would include minimum of 1 finals appearance. Minimum of 12 wins per season and finally a marked improvement if our basic skill set.
Let Bucks see through what he started.
We gave MM 10yrs and he was a hired gun to do a job not one of our favourite sons hence why I judge them differently.
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John Wren Virgo

"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."


Joined: 15 Jul 2007


PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Pass mark for Nathan Buckley in 2016Reply with quote

swoop42 wrote:

He's signed to the end of 2016 so why the need?

Coaches should stop being so precious about it and just get on with the job they're paid very well to do.


who said he is being precious about it? i still contend we extend bucks' contract so that he has three years of certainty.

i see us being closer than many think. save for winning half of those during the last 9 week period of losses we would be playing finals. spare me the reminder that we didn't. it demonstrated that we have improved considerably.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:51 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Speculation about coaching futures has the potential to de-rail seasons. I'd rather he was re-signed for 3 years, irrespective of the Club's private view.
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Robbie 



Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Location: Canberra

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:31 am
Post subject: +1Reply with quote

qldmagpie67 wrote:
Swoop this is a hard one mate. Before the past couple weeks I was firmly in give him a new deal before season end for 3/4yrs to see the job through to completion.
I was very happy with our efforts against the likes of Hawks Port Freo Tigers West Coast losing 5 games by less than 2 goals against the highly fancied sides and form sides gave me real optimism.
I could forgive the Bulldogs game as they were on some sort of run. But the games against the scum and demons set alarm bells off for me. Then we had the complete meltdown in th last term against the Tigers.
Now I've seen it happen to a lot of teams this year when a side gets on a roll and can kick 7/8/9 goals in the blink of a eyelid. Freo did it to west coast, Hawks did it to Sydney and several other sides and I can't remember who it was but someone had a similar run against the Hawks earlier in the season. So it can happen some days to the best of team.
My concern centres around our ability to change things up during a game and the players to be able to fully commit to a game style that can win close games and more importantly finals.
Yes we are young in terms of experience and we have youth on every line so it's a learning curve in many ways.
I'm happy to see guys like Crisp, DeGoey, Moore, Scharenberg, Langdon, Frost, Williams, Grundy, Witts, Sinclair, Elliott get games as I see them very involved in our next premiership tilt.
I would hate to get half way through next season be around the 8-3 mark again and then have the media create a circus around whether or not Bucks is getting a new deal and have that impact on the playing group.
Conversely I'm torn on rewarding Bucks with a new deal now as I don't see a hell of a lot improvement in our basic skill set and game style.
At 8-3 we were manic in our pressure and hard to play against even when we lost. My question would be can our players sustain that sort of style for the whole season ? Can the players be or are the players fit enough to do this for an entire season ? Did we come out of the gate to hard the past 2 seasons burning up our energy stores and have nothing left in the tank for the second half of the season ? How many players who have played 10+ games this season who had interrupted preseason and has that impacted on our performances the longer the season has gone on ?
We did it in 2010/11 but our age/experience profile of the players was very different. We had a very strong core of players with 125 + games and then added the likes of Sidey & Beams. Now our age profile puts us around 60-80 game ave per player so really we are 2 seasons from being in that same zone.

The other part of the puzzle is do we have the right assistant/ line coaches in place to get the best out of the talent pool we have assembled plus hoping to add too ? I'm not sold on Harvey still. I think we need to search out the best available and get them now to support and work with Bucks. I would love to see Chocco back hate seeing him that ugly black and gold slash kills me. He would be a great sounding board for Bucks and we know he is a magpie at heart. I doubt we will get him but it would be great. If not him why not chase s Worsfold he isn't out of the game long and has a good understanding of it. Let's put the best around him give him every chance to succeed.

It's a difficult decision and I don't envy Eddie and the board having to make it.
So if I was in their shoes right now and had to make the decision I would ...........

Give Bucks a new 2yr deal with a 2yr extension option if set criteria is met. This would include minimum of 1 finals appearance. Minimum of 12 wins per season and finally a marked improvement if our basic skilhul set.
Let Bucks see through what he started.
We gave MM 10yrs and he was a hired gun to do a job not one of our favourite sons hence why I judge them differently.


Totally agree and replacing Harvey is the first priority. It breaks my heart when I see Sav helping Carlton forwards kicking and Monkey teaching Ruck skills to the Dawks. Bucks needs some assistance in skills training for the great young kids we have coming through, and Harvey has done nothing as far as I'm concerned, unless you count poor kicking and overuse of the ball, essential skills.

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3rd degree Aries



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:34 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as skills goes wouldn't it be great to have Didak showing forwards how to kick goals, god forbid.
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thompsoc 



Joined: 21 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:49 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

May I suggest we employ a number of respected football identities and get them to fill out an anonymous report on his coaching.
That would be interesting.

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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:56 am
Post subject: Re: +1Reply with quote

Robbie wrote:
Totally agree and replacing Harvey is the first priority. Harvey has done nothing as far as I'm concerned, unless you count poor kicking and overuse of the ball, essential skills.


Not agreeing or disagreeing but are you guessing/speculating here or have you got solid evidence to support your claims about Harvey?

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Neil Appleby Taurus



Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:05 am
Post subject: Re: Pass mark for Nathan Buckley in 2016Reply with quote

John Wren wrote:
swoop42 wrote:

He's signed to the end of 2016 so why the need?

Coaches should stop being so precious about it and just get on with the job they're paid very well to do.


who said he is being precious about it? i still contend we extend bucks' contract so that he has three years of certainty.

i see us being closer than many think. save for winning half of those during the last 9 week period of losses we would be playing finals. spare me the reminder that we didn't. it demonstrated that we have improved considerably.


Yep, we all know what will happen if Bucks goes into 2016 without an extension. It will dominate every discussion and every press conference. He will get an extension over the pre-season and that's the best thing for all concerned.

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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:08 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Mugwump wrote:
David wrote:

Having said all that, a coach's quality only has a slight relationship with win/loss ratios and ladder positions. That's what makes this poll a little shallow – it should never be about winning x number of games. If Clinton Young hadn't dropped that mark against Gold Coast last year and we'd snuck into the finals as a result, would that have made Buckley a better coach? Obviously not. No club would (or at least should) make a decision based on something so superficial.


Agree, David. WL ratios do matter, but equally what matters will be something that we, as fans, can barely discern - the confidence and development of key players and the quality of the feeling in the club. What Cam Mooney said is wise, and it's rooted in how football really works at this level. Young players take time, young teams take time, and they eventually click, as long as they continue to believe. Sometimes it can be hard to know just when it'll happen. That's why i'm in the review at end 2017 camp, unless i see evidence of a player revolt in the meantime. Richmond could have dumped Hardwick any time in the last few years. That they did not suggests to me that they have learned from their historic mistakes, amd we should learn from their mistakes as well.


Well said. Not a fan of setting arbitrary targets, particularly when the basis is something as basic as win - loss ratios. Buckley will be quite rightly reviewed at the end of this season (as should happen every year) and justifiably receive a contract extension.
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