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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | Ball use at VFL level is one thing, and there wasn't anything particularly impressive about those kicks. Kennedy needs to show more composure and polish at senior level. There seems to be an impression that he's being held back, but I think it's more that he's disappointed. The club would clearly want to play him, every other young player fit enough is getting a good run of games. The question over Kennedy is whether he's going to be able to make it as a mid given his lack of size or strength. |
How does he get to show more composure and polish at senior level though? He spends most of his time in the magoos, then he's given a quarter of a game here and there where he's not allowed to f--- up at all. For what proportion of young players is that going to work for? He's practically guaranteed of failure.
Next: I'm a big believer in if you are not a star of the team, if you have a run of bad form, you go back to the 2s and if you blitz it, you come back and knock out another squad player who is out of form. In fact, the players that go back to the lower levels and respond with big performances are the ones you really value as that shows character as well as skill.
Well we've lost 8 of 9 now and we have a kid absolutely shredding it in the 2s and the coaches' response is to ignore him, even to the point of not mentioning his 30+ possession game in the bests one week.
What shits me about his treatment is that next year, he will be getting "oh but he's been in the system 4 years now. He should be breaking out or he'll never make it" from the pundits here and elsewhere when the reality is that he's had 24 games in 3 years and half of them as sub. This is while we have been rebuilding and he has been showing exceptional results in the lower levels. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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^ i still contend the online fan poll to pick the team is a winner, however, dave might think it is idiotic.
i do wonder of the removal of the sub will help the likes of kenno.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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^ Got a feeling it will just consign him to the 2nds for 6 weeks at a time. And dump him after a week back because he only got 15 touches.
I know that response is petulant and a bit childish but f--- 'em.
Look I know that the club must see something in him and he must see something in the club as they extended his contract last year. But nothing of how he's been developed makes any sense. Sorry to repeat myself (from a different thread) but he's shown he can run out games. He's played his best footy when he's been allowed to play the full game. He's shown he can back up after playing full games. We've had some underperformers in the seniors that really needed to be dropped for their own results.
His kicking is pretty good at the lower levels. His technique is OK. He works well roving the ruck and knows how to find the pill. At the top flight he's looked rushed and unsteady. That he needs to build his composure is not in doubt. But having him working on that in front of 100 people at a suburban ground is not going to help him when he gets out in front of 50k at the G. |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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| Geek wrote: | ^ Got a feeling it will just consign him to the 2nds for 6 weeks at a time. And dump him after a week back because he only got 15 touches.
I know that response is petulant and a bit childish but f--- 'em.
Look I know that the club must see something in him and he must see something in the club as they extended his contract last year. But nothing of how he's been developed makes any sense. Sorry to repeat myself (from a different thread) but he's shown he can run out games. He's played his best footy when he's been allowed to play the full game. He's shown he can back up after playing full games. We've had some underperformers in the seniors that really needed to be dropped for their own results.
His kicking is pretty good at the lower levels. His technique is OK. He works well roving the ruck and knows how to find the pill. At the top flight he's looked rushed and unsteady. That he needs to build his composure is not in doubt. But having him working on that in front of 100 people at a suburban ground is not going to help him when he gets out in front of 50k at the G. |
Completely agree with you Geek.
He should have been retained in the side following the Bulldogs game.
He did some special things before his errors resulting in loss of confidence.
Its up to the senior players and the senior coach to build him up.
He has class, is tough, and I'd take him every day of the week over some others who get opportunity after opportunity and would not get a game with most other sides.
Needs the heat of senior football to develop his composure.
I have <2% doubt that BK will make it. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Play him on the ball for the remaining two games and see how he goes.
Same goes for Karnezis. Both players show enormous talent at VFL level but have thus far looked completely out of their depth in the AFL. It seems to be all about composure for Kennedy and intensity for Karnezis. |
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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Vitriol?! Why? Because you disagree? I think you'll find some analysis if you look RREEEAALLLYY hard!
I know each and every player on our list, their numbers, their pedigree, their ages, their strengths and their weaknesses, I honestly don't believe there's 50 people on earth not employed in the game that know our players and our history better than I, and the VERY first thing that I think of when I look at that list is HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series? ALL of the answers are north of the shoulders. Yes, E, I agree with you, we had a better first half than last year, despite managing to get to second last year before it all went tits-up, but then we did get Crisp, Varcoe, DeGoey, Moore, Greenwood, Maynard, Shaz, Marsh and others, the first two would surely be in anyones top 10 list for the season, they were great. Next year we might add Treloar and Aish, and see a couple of youngsters take the next step, plus we would certainly expect a lot more from Greenwood if he can stay fit. In the couple of games I've seen from each I have no doubt whatsoever that Sharenberg and Marsh will be huge for us in 2016. With 5 more great ball users, we should expect even better things from the first half of 2016, hell, we should be top 2! The question is where will we be at the bit of the season that matters? The numbers are very clear, 14-16, is the obvious guess; our slide has been nothing if not consistent!!! The minute it became clear that a top 4 finish was no longer possible it should've been kids, kids, kids. Dropping Shaz and giving Degoey the vest gives the lie to the old "rebuilding" story.
Doesn't it????
As will giving Shaz the vest tomorrow. And a thousand other things. Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land???
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| 35forever wrote: | Vitriol?! Why? Because you disagree? I think you'll find some analysis if you look RREEEAALLLYY hard!
I know each and every player on our list, their numbers, their pedigree, their ages, their strengths and their weaknesses, I honestly don't believe there's 50 people on earth not employed in the game that know our players and our history better than I, and the VERY first thing that I think of when I look at that list is HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series? ALL of the answers are north of the shoulders. Yes, E, I agree with you, we had a better first half than last year, despite managing to get to second last year before it all went tits-up, but then we did get Crisp, Varcoe, DeGoey, Moore, Greenwood, Maynard, Shaz, Marsh and others, the first two would surely be in anyones top 10 list for the season, they were great. Next year we might add Treloar and Aish, and see a couple of youngsters take the next step, plus we would certainly expect a lot more from Greenwood if he can stay fit. In the couple of games I've seen from each I have no doubt whatsoever that Sharenberg and Marsh will be huge for us in 2016. With 5 more great ball users, we should expect even better things from the first half of 2016, hell, we should be top 2! The question is where will we be at the bit of the season that matters? The numbers are very clear, 14-16, is the obvious guess; our slide has been nothing if not consistent!!! The minute it became clear that a top 4 finish was no longer possible it should've been kids, kids, kids. Dropping Shaz and giving Degoey the vest gives the lie to the old "rebuilding" story.
Doesn't it????
As will giving Shaz the vest tomorrow. And a thousand other things. Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land??? |
You can't actually make an assertion about the special knowledge you believe yourself to have then follow it up in the balance of the sentence with such a preposterous statement but still expect us to take anything else you say seriously. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | 35forever wrote: | Vitriol?! Why? Because you disagree? I think you'll find some analysis if you look RREEEAALLLYY hard!
I know each and every player on our list, their numbers, their pedigree, their ages, their strengths and their weaknesses, I honestly don't believe there's 50 people on earth not employed in the game that know our players and our history better than I, and the VERY first thing that I think of when I look at that list is HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series? ALL of the answers are north of the shoulders. Yes, E, I agree with you, we had a better first half than last year, despite managing to get to second last year before it all went tits-up, but then we did get Crisp, Varcoe, DeGoey, Moore, Greenwood, Maynard, Shaz, Marsh and others, the first two would surely be in anyones top 10 list for the season, they were great. Next year we might add Treloar and Aish, and see a couple of youngsters take the next step, plus we would certainly expect a lot more from Greenwood if he can stay fit. In the couple of games I've seen from each I have no doubt whatsoever that Sharenberg and Marsh will be huge for us in 2016. With 5 more great ball users, we should expect even better things from the first half of 2016, hell, we should be top 2! The question is where will we be at the bit of the season that matters? The numbers are very clear, 14-16, is the obvious guess; our slide has been nothing if not consistent!!! The minute it became clear that a top 4 finish was no longer possible it should've been kids, kids, kids. Dropping Shaz and giving Degoey the vest gives the lie to the old "rebuilding" story.
Doesn't it????
As will giving Shaz the vest tomorrow. And a thousand other things. Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land??? |
You can't actually make an assertion about the special knowledge you believe yourself to have then follow it up in the balance of the sentence with such a preposterous statement but still expect us to take anything else you say seriously. |
i'd be extremely surprised you could find fifty people who take his ramblings seriously.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 35forever wrote: | look at that list, HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series?
Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land??? |
fair point.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| John Wren wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | 35forever wrote: | Vitriol?! Why? Because you disagree? I think you'll find some analysis if you look RREEEAALLLYY hard!
I know each and every player on our list, their numbers, their pedigree, their ages, their strengths and their weaknesses, I honestly don't believe there's 50 people on earth not employed in the game that know our players and our history better than I, and the VERY first thing that I think of when I look at that list is HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series? ALL of the answers are north of the shoulders. Yes, E, I agree with you, we had a better first half than last year, despite managing to get to second last year before it all went tits-up, but then we did get Crisp, Varcoe, DeGoey, Moore, Greenwood, Maynard, Shaz, Marsh and others, the first two would surely be in anyones top 10 list for the season, they were great. Next year we might add Treloar and Aish, and see a couple of youngsters take the next step, plus we would certainly expect a lot more from Greenwood if he can stay fit. In the couple of games I've seen from each I have no doubt whatsoever that Sharenberg and Marsh will be huge for us in 2016. With 5 more great ball users, we should expect even better things from the first half of 2016, hell, we should be top 2! The question is where will we be at the bit of the season that matters? The numbers are very clear, 14-16, is the obvious guess; our slide has been nothing if not consistent!!! The minute it became clear that a top 4 finish was no longer possible it should've been kids, kids, kids. Dropping Shaz and giving Degoey the vest gives the lie to the old "rebuilding" story.
Doesn't it????
As will giving Shaz the vest tomorrow. And a thousand other things. Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land??? |
You can't actually make an assertion about the special knowledge you believe yourself to have then follow it up in the balance of the sentence with such a preposterous statement but still expect us to take anything else you say seriously. |
i'd be extremely surprised you could find fifty people who take his ramblings seriously. |
49 to go.  |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | 35forever wrote: | Vitriol?! Why? Because you disagree? I think you'll find some analysis if you look RREEEAALLLYY hard!
I know each and every player on our list, their numbers, their pedigree, their ages, their strengths and their weaknesses, I honestly don't believe there's 50 people on earth not employed in the game that know our players and our history better than I, and the VERY first thing that I think of when I look at that list is HOW has it failed to make the last 2 finals series? ALL of the answers are north of the shoulders. Yes, E, I agree with you, we had a better first half than last year, despite managing to get to second last year before it all went tits-up, but then we did get Crisp, Varcoe, DeGoey, Moore, Greenwood, Maynard, Shaz, Marsh and others, the first two would surely be in anyones top 10 list for the season, they were great. Next year we might add Treloar and Aish, and see a couple of youngsters take the next step, plus we would certainly expect a lot more from Greenwood if he can stay fit. In the couple of games I've seen from each I have no doubt whatsoever that Sharenberg and Marsh will be huge for us in 2016. With 5 more great ball users, we should expect even better things from the first half of 2016, hell, we should be top 2! The question is where will we be at the bit of the season that matters? The numbers are very clear, 14-16, is the obvious guess; our slide has been nothing if not consistent!!! The minute it became clear that a top 4 finish was no longer possible it should've been kids, kids, kids. Dropping Shaz and giving Degoey the vest gives the lie to the old "rebuilding" story.
Doesn't it????
As will giving Shaz the vest tomorrow. And a thousand other things. Do you really believe that "rebuilding" was the intention when Buckley took over? You do???!!! Hey, wanna buy some land??? |
You can't actually make an assertion about the special knowledge you believe yourself to have then follow it up in the balance of the sentence with such a preposterous statement but still expect us to take anything else you say seriously. |
i'd be extremely surprised you could find fifty people who take his ramblings seriously. |
49 to go. |
Hardly a flood! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Geek wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | Ball use at VFL level is one thing, and there wasn't anything particularly impressive about those kicks. Kennedy needs to show more composure and polish at senior level. There seems to be an impression that he's being held back, but I think it's more that he's disappointed. The club would clearly want to play him, every other young player fit enough is getting a good run of games. The question over Kennedy is whether he's going to be able to make it as a mid given his lack of size or strength. |
How does he get to show more composure and polish at senior level though? He spends most of his time in the magoos, then he's given a quarter of a game here and there where he's not allowed to f--- up at all. For what proportion of young players is that going to work for? He's practically guaranteed of failure.
Next: I'm a big believer in if you are not a star of the team, if you have a run of bad form, you go back to the 2s and if you blitz it, you come back and knock out another squad player who is out of form. In fact, the players that go back to the lower levels and respond with big performances are the ones you really value as that shows character as well as skill.
Well we've lost 8 of 9 now and we have a kid absolutely shredding it in the 2s and the coaches' response is to ignore him, even to the point of not mentioning his 30+ possession game in the bests one week.
What shits me about his treatment is that next year, he will be getting "oh but he's been in the system 4 years now. He should be breaking out or he'll never make it" from the pundits here and elsewhere when the reality is that he's had 24 games in 3 years and half of them as sub. This is while we have been rebuilding and he has been showing exceptional results in the lower levels. |
I think there's a tendency to overvalue VFL performances. Sure, they're an indicator of a player's ability, but there are players putting up great numbers every week who will never make it in the seniors. Kennedy's doing pretty well in the VFL as a centre square mid - the game's I've seen he hasn't been dominant or used the ball particularly well. Can he play this role for a full game in the seniors? I don't think he can.
I'm not actually sure what the argument is here. Some people seem to think that Kennedy's being unfairly treated (just as they did with Kyle Martin and Danny Stanley). Do you feel that the club just doesn't like the kid? What reason could they possibly have to not play someone they drafted 20 odd and clearly had hopes for? Every other young player fit enough is getting a game at the moment, there is simply nothing to suggest we are holding any of them back. The only rational way to see this is that Kennedy is not meeting the club's expectations. That's disappointing but it's hardly a reason to rail against the club or selection policy.
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Well done boys! |
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