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Good and bad bosses, and why

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:29 pm
Post subject: Good and bad bosses, and whyReply with quote

Rather than unleashing too specifically, what to your mind has characterised the best and worst bosses you've encountered?

What advice would you give to those taking up positions of authority?

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:33 pm
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Where did unleashing what to your mind get characterised the best and worst bosses you've encountered?
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:11 pm
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Avoid telling people the truth….people want to hear what they want to hear, and seldom is that the truth.
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:04 pm
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The big miners have so many bad bosses. They appoint uni grad engineers and the like into senior positions and they have no idea.
I've seen some of the most ridiculous things implemented that backfire and don't work when, if they'd consulted the appropriate, experienced tradesperson before pushing things through, they could've avoided heaps of headaches and saved a fortune.
The other amazing aspect of this culture is, these idiots get promoted!

My old man used to say that Rio had a lunatic locked in a cage and every month they'd throw him a bone and ask him for an idea to implement. The longer I've been in mining, the more certain I am that Dad was on the money.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:17 am
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I could write thousands of words on this, but if I had to distil it down to a few key things, it'd go something like this :

1. Be technically strong in your field. If you find yourself managing professionals who are trained in an area where you are not, then spend a lot of time with them understanding their knowledge and how it relates to what you do and don't know.

2. Listen, then decide, then explain the reasons for your decision, and then pay as much attention to the execution of your decision as you did to the making of it.

3. Most people work to earn a living, but beyond that, they work for three desires - a sense of purpose, and the ability to exercise autonomy, and display professional mastery. It's your job to provide an environment that allows all three to flourish.

4. Be honest, but magnanimous - tell people if you are not happy, and why, and give them every chance to get it right. If they can't meet your expectations despite trying their best, then you owe it to the enterprise to let them go - in which case, give them time and money (assuming the business can afford it) to set their life in order without the stress of wondering how they can meet the mortgage.

5. explain clearly where you are trying to get to, and what everyone's role is in getting there. Then ask them to back-brief you on how they plan to give effect to your intent, and set them free to go after it.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:36 pm
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^That's a solid answer, I reckon. I wonder what percentage of bosses would actually get close to it, and as you allude to whether or not it could be sustained under financial pressure.

Here are two other questions within the management area for you or anyone who has time.

1. What is the best or worst employee evaluation process you've seen/experienced and why?

2. Do you favour more or less transparency when it comes to salaries (and overall packages) and why?

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:45 pm
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Skids wrote:
The big miners have so many bad bosses. They appoint uni grad engineers and the like into senior positions and they have no idea.
I've seen some of the most ridiculous things implemented that backfire and don't work when, if they'd consulted the appropriate, experienced tradesperson before pushing things through, they could've avoided heaps of headaches and saved a fortune.
The other amazing aspect of this culture is, these idiots get promoted!

My old man used to say that Rio had a lunatic locked in a cage and every month they'd throw him a bone and ask him for an idea to implement. The longer I've been in mining, the more certain I am that Dad was on the money.

Haha. I can imagine the gap between the offices and the mines would be huge. Engineering and management are notorious for not speaking even when they're in the same building.

Are you working out on site? What's the mood with the current price pressure they're under?

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Good and bad bosses, and whyReply with quote

pietillidie wrote:
Rather than unleashing too specifically, what to your mind has characterised the best and worst bosses you've encountered?

What advice would you give to those taking up positions of authority?


Despite my better judgement, I decided to read your OP as the premise got me interested. So my 2c FWIW.

What I like in a manager:

1. Don't try to micro manage me, give me goals and direction and GTF out of my way and let me do it.
2. Trust me.


I've had managers who sat 3 metres away and sat 1000km away. The worst was a micro manager who was 1000km away, the second worst was someone who was 10 metres away but couldn't come to grips with the fact that I didn't need/want to run to her 2-3 times per day for advice and support. Unlike the needy ones constantly in her face, I actually knew what I was doing.

How I manage.

Disclaimer, I've never touted myself to be a good people manager, it's not a role I seek out, I prefer to work in autonomous roles. Apparently though I'm not bad at it. I caught up with a bloke a couple of years ago who I hadn't seen for close on 20 years. He told me I was the best manager he'd ever had and that was when I was 25 and knew shit about management.

Where I work at the moment, If I left there would be probably 3 out of 4 of the people who report to me looking to move on.

So, how do I manage people?

1. I expect you to do your job. I'll provide the strategy, I'll provide as much detail as you want you're new but I expect you to do your job and not want me to do it for you. Me strategy, you make it happen, we may discuss the logistics and I will give you whatever support I can.

2. If I ask you to write a paper to go to the board or executive committee, it will have your name on it, not mine.

3. I don't need to boost myself by your achievements, you will achieve if I let you and I'll get the appropriate credit for being your manager, but you WILL get the appropriate credit for doing the job. I hate dickwads who want to take credit for all the work of people who report to them. My CEO goes directly to people who report to me because they're damn good at what they do, he might remember to let me know sometimes.

4. I don't do blame, mistakes are allowed.If you **** something up (and you will, you're human) I'm not interested in blaming you to cover my butt. I've been doing what I do for a while now, my back is 3 inches thick of scar tissue. I'm interested in finding out what went wrong, what do we need to do about it right now and what do we need to do to minimise the opportunity of it happening again.

5. I'm not structured in my approach, I expect adults to act like adults and will give you the space unless you demonstrate you can't work that way. Then we get micro if I have to.

6. I had a good point but lost it. I'll come back to this one if I remember and/or care.

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:00 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
I don't do blame, mistakes are allowed.If you **** something up (and you will, you're human) I'm not interested in blaming you to cover my butt ... I'm interested in finding out what went wrong, what do we need to do about it right now and what do we need to do to minimise the opportunity of it happening again.


I think that there is one of the most valuable approaches for a good boss to take. I reckon it's a principle that could easily be applied outside the workplace, too.

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:04 pm
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I think I do.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:14 pm
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David wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
I don't do blame, mistakes are allowed.If you **** something up (and you will, you're human) I'm not interested in blaming you to cover my butt ... I'm interested in finding out what went wrong, what do we need to do about it right now and what do we need to do to minimise the opportunity of it happening again.


I think that there is one of the most valuable approaches for a good boss to take. I reckon it's a principle that could easily be applied outside the workplace, too.


People are funny critters though.

I had a situation recently where someone made a very simple mistake which resulted in people being sent their payslip for the same time last year rather than the current one. Had no impact on what people got paid, but I got a few calls from some very senior people.

When I spoke to the team, I made it clear I wasn't pissed off and that in my call it was a minor incident, quickly fixed. The person who actually made the mistake took it to heart despite what I said and was harder on herself than I could ever have been. I had to tell her direct manager to tell her to let it go FFS, the only person blaming her, was her.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:31 pm
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^Well, I'm glad you decided to write on the topic because it's one of your specialties, and it shows.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:49 am
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^ Agree, nothing wrong with Stui's advice on this. In truth, the challenge is not knowing what to do at the level of principles, it's actually doing it rigorously and well when the pressure is on, as you suggested, PTID.

Really good bosses are far rarer than lousy ones. Great bosses are vanishingly few in number.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:45 am
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It's already been brought up, but micro managers are the worst. Tell employees what to do and then let them do it. That's the approach I've taken the few times I've let an employer rope me in to supervisory or management roles. Laughing
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Dangles 

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Joined: 14 May 2015


PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:41 am
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Give people clear information about what they're expected to do.

Provide clear instructions about workplace systems and procedures, so people, especially new workers, can be free from the anxiety of wondering if they're doing it properly.
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