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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Sorry my body cannot yet rotate. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ Pendles noted on SEN today that in the close losses, Collingwood has kicked 40.77. |
Of all that has transpired that is the thing that annoys me most. Some of our set shot kicking has been simply disgusting. Basic football, don't kick to close to the man on the mark and they do it all the time. Some of our coaching staff need to stop reinventing the wheel. I would go further and remove half the coaching staff, there is better out there and we should be grabbing them. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | Rude I love your positivity mate. I've been on the band wagon for ages it's all about the future to
But riddle me this please
Let's take Sidey
3yrs ago he was a elite user if the football. He hit targets from 30/40/50m lace out with such regularity it was scarily good.
Now he can't hit a guy with a kick more than 20m away more than 50% of the time. Last night 9 times he got called play on play on because he didn't kick it 15m
Who has coached that elite skill out of him ?
3yrs ago he efficiency was in the mid to high 70% range now it's just over 50%
How does a player go from that to this ?
I've never been more disappointed in a game as I was last night.
We played a ordinary team who didn't have there biggest and best forward, who lost 3 players by mid way through the final term and we still can't run away with a game (reminds me the Suns game 2014)
We have stalled the past 18 months.
I will happily concede we are better at staying in games. You can't doubt the effort the players give they try their guts out no doubt. 5 losses by under 2 goals against sides all earmarked to be finalists this year proves we have the talent.
But is Bucks the man to get the best out of this group ? |
I've never been in the camp that considered Sidebottom's disposal elite. To my way of thinking it has always been a cause of great frustration and likely the only reason he'll never become elite.
I think the drop off in efficiency is more a consequence of the changed experience and age profile of the team rather than any change in Sidey's performance. Players like Beams, Thomas, Shaw and Wellingham had all emerged in the same group as Sidey and just made him look better than he actually was. |
Jack that's a very valid point I hadn't considered. He is an undoubted talent and I think that's were my ultimate frustration comes from. I expect so much of him maybe to much and I should dial that back to he's just a ok player and judge him as such. |
Where do you get these numbers from? Are they just guesses? Sidebottom is an excellent user of the ball, one of the best in the league. His efficiency this season is better then Pendlebury's:
Sidebottom: 76.8%
Pendlebury: 75.9%
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Well done boys! |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^^^ Pendles noted on SEN today that in the close losses, Collingwood has kicked 40.77. |
That's damning isn't it. Obviously doing the work to create the chances though which gives cause for optimism. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Yes, the goal-kicking report would be "Could apply themselves better. Plenty of room for improvement." |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Seriously, though, the point Pendles made about it is that it is a double-whammy because the opposition defenders feel that they don't need to tighten up, so they continue to position themselves to run the ball out of our defence, whereas if the goals are nailed more consistently, the defenders feel that they have to play closer and that is, in effect, it's own reward - presumably it creates forward space and reduces the opposition's defensive run. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | Where do you get these numbers from? Are they just guesses? Sidebottom is an excellent user of the ball, one of the best in the league. His efficiency this season is better then Pendlebury's:
Sidebottom: 76.8%
Pendlebury: 75.9% |
Don't doubt that Inky but as I'm all too frequently told, DE% can be misleading. Sidebottom highly problematic in that regard. All his dinky handballs to teammates under the hammer are counted as effective, all those dinky little sideways 10m passes are counted as effective. That in and of itself doesn't mean they're good disposals or of any benefit to the team. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | No caffeine for you, mate, after tonights' antics I'm prescribing Bex and green tea all the way!  |
Well, the doctor suggested Ritalin for the ADHD, but hey, Bex and green tea might be worth a try... 
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | Where do you get these numbers from? Are they just guesses? Sidebottom is an excellent user of the ball, one of the best in the league. His efficiency this season is better then Pendlebury's:
Sidebottom: 76.8%
Pendlebury: 75.9% |
Don't doubt that Inky but as I'm all too frequently told, DE% can be misleading. Sidebottom highly problematic in that regard. All his dinky handballs to teammates under the hammer are counted as effective, all those dinky little sideways 10m passes are counted as effective. That in and of itself doesn't mean they're good disposals or of any benefit to the team. |
Efficiency's not a stat I usually use, just replying to the other poster.
And none of the lead up play means much to me either. The crucial bit of ball use is entering our 50. I have Sidey as either our best or next best behind Pendlebury.
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Well done boys! |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | one thing noticed watching on TV is the high trajectory of our field kicking, which puts the receiver under pressure by giving invitation to the opposition to spoil or intercept.
keep the ball low FFS! |
They named the last Bond film after Nathan Brown "Skyball"!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Yes, the goal-kicking report would be "Could apply themselves better. Plenty of room for improvement." |
When is the Improvement coming Though?
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I am Da Man |
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didick
didick
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | Where do you get these numbers from? Are they just guesses? Sidebottom is an excellent user of the ball, one of the best in the league. His efficiency this season is better then Pendlebury's:
Sidebottom: 76.8%
Pendlebury: 75.9% |
Don't doubt that Inky but as I'm all too frequently told, DE% can be misleading. Sidebottom highly problematic in that regard. All his dinky handballs to teammates under the hammer are counted as effective, all those dinky little sideways 10m passes are counted as effective. That in and of itself doesn't mean they're good disposals or of any benefit to the team. |
Efficiency's not a stat I usually use, just replying to the other poster.
And none of the lead up play means much to me either. The crucial bit of ball use is entering our 50. I have Sidey as either our best or next best behind Pendlebury. |
Entry into the F50 is crucial. But so is using the ball well upfield and not putting your teammates under pressure. Maybe i don't watch Sidey objectively enough but I remember a lot of costly turnovers over the last couple of years from Sidey. I don't particularly like criticising a player but it's no different to critising players who have trouble kicking gettable set shots which we all have a go at. Anyway Bucks rates him highly and reckons he's got lots upside so WTF would I know. My opinion in any case .
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"The night is a very dark time for me" Chaz Michael Michaels |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^It seems a few have this view. It's not something I've noticed, I've always seen him as one of our cleanest players. He is creative though and sometimes the more creative options don't always come off, but it's necessary to have players that take the risk. I think he's our second smartest and safest user of the ball behind Pendles.
Our overall ball use is not where it needs to be just yet. This has very little to do with lack of skill. A team needs familiarity far more than individual elite kicks, and we're still building on that.
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Well done boys! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| matrix10 wrote: | Btterly disappointed we lost to Swans - part from Parker, Kennedy and Jack - I absolutely hate them!
We completely outplayed them.
As soemone else said- we are about 2 goals off the best teams in the comp.- most of which are on the downward slope (hawks, freo, swans).
Last night, it was our senior players who let us down.
Pendlebury's disposal was shocking- he coughed it up numerous times- many of which directly or indirectly cost us a goal.
Reid was ordinary- yet could be excused for 2nd game blues.
Cloke opened in a blaze of glory- yet faded- to be expected after some time out.
Swanny was absolutely awesome.
Sidebottom and Toovey must be shoe-ins for lead role and understudy in 'Jekyll and Hyde'- both performed equally breathtaking and headshaking acts.
De Goey played his best game yet- this kid will be an out and out star- and seems to have a level head.
Moore's 3rd quarter was a glimpse of what's to come- anotehr absolute star in wiating.
Marsh was also impressive- he just needs to build confidence in his ability at this level- he always looked to pass it off, rather than taking the game on.
Grundy played his bets game for the year- was immense around the ground.
Overall- I am very happy with the direction this team is heading.
Bring on 2016!!
Go pies |
Awesome report- so how the **** did we lose?!
One thing for sure, after 6 such close loses, we have to bet he most creative losers out there, we find a new way e wry week!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^It seems a few have this view. It's not something I've noticed, I've always seen him as one of our cleanest players. He is creative though and sometimes the more creative options don't always come off, but it's necessary to have players that take the risk. I think he's our second smartest and safest user of the ball behind Pendles.
Our overall ball use is not where it needs to be just yet. This has very little to do with lack of skill. A team needs familiarity far more than individual elite kicks, and we're still building on that. |
Inky I didn't research his current eff stats admittedly. I used to keep a eye on both Sidey and Beams just for my own sake and I remember he was always in the mid 70% range in eff.
If he still is then they are useless stats because his effectiveness is not what it used to be. He used to hit guys lace out from 30/40/50m several times a game. Now it's dinky 10m side ways kicks or handballs to team mates under the pump no benefit to the team IMO.
My point was he was a very good reliable player who you could count on under pressure. Now he seems lost at times and his effectiveness to the team has diminished IMO.
I said in 2011/12 if he can impact the scoreboard more he would take the next step to being regarded as elite. 3/4yrs later he still doesn't impact the scoreboard in fact he misses some very easy shots a guy of his ability should kick.
My point other point was has his role,in the team changed that much it has affected his ability to be the damaging player he was and can be.
I rated him very highly I just don't see any improvement in recent times corresponding with Bucks time as coach.
He still racks up touches but they aren't damaging and often lead to turnovers (and his not a lone in that regard you can add Swan to it as well)
I want to see the guy we had in 2011/12 back |
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