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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| roar wrote: | | That didn't answer my question. |
Well, then, yes - Sidebottom was, before the season, a top 50 player in the competition, according to the players and, apart from his injury, this has been his best season, statistically. He was a pick 11, has played 140 games, has come 2nd and 3rd in the Copeland, been one of Collingwood's best on the ground in 2 Grand Finals and will be just turned 25 when the next season starts. He is way better performed than Beams on any measure that matters and is one of Collingwood's best 3 footballers.
So, I guess I wouldn't reject pick 1 out of hand if it were offered, provided it came with some decent sweeteners. Pick 5 is not enough and pick 10 would be met with derisory laughter.
As for the comparison with Pendlebury, we probably wouldn't get more for Pendles - he is 3 years older and, realistically, probably only has another 60 to 100 top-class games in him, whereas Sidebottom is just about to come into his prime and probably has another 100 to 150 top-class games in him. And, by the way, the more they reduce interchange numbers, the more valuable Sidebottom becomes because he isn't quick but he has just about the best endurance of any mid-fielder going around, so the slower the game gets, the more he'll shine.
For the record, I wouldn't trade either. |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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I don't think we have much, if any, trade "bait". We'd be looking more to trade picks than players. I'm sure some players will be moved but less as bait and more because they've failed or as a sweetener in a deal mostly involving picks.
After this off-season we really need to stabilise our list. Too much movement the last few years and looks like there will be significant change again this year.
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Well done boys! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | I don't think we have much, if any, trade "bait". We'd be looking more to trade picks than players. I'm sure some players will be moved but less as bait and more because they've failed or as a sweetener in a deal mostly involving picks.
After this off-season we really need to stabilise our list. Too much movement the last few years and looks like there will be significant change again this year. |
Now that is an intelligent post.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Seedsman, Kennedy and Karnezis would be nervous.
I wonder if Gault's position is also vulnerable, seeing as he's been on our list for a while now?
Last edited by RudeBoy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | roar wrote: | | That didn't answer my question. |
Well, then, yes - Sidebottom was, before the season, a top 50 player in the competition, according to the players and, apart from his injury, this has been his best season, statistically. He was a pick 11, has played 140 games, has come 2nd and 3rd in the Copeland, been one of Collingwood's best on the ground in 2 Grand Finals and will be just turned 25 when the next season starts. He is way better performed than Beams on any measure that matters and is one of Collingwood's best 3 footballers.
So, I guess I wouldn't reject pick 1 out of hand if it were offered, provided it came with some decent sweeteners. Pick 5 is not enough and pick 10 would be met with derisory laughter.
As for the comparison with Pendlebury, we probably wouldn't get more for Pendles - he is 3 years older and, realistically, probably only has another 60 to 100 top-class games in him, whereas Sidebottom is just about to come into his prime and probably has another 100 to 150 top-class games in him. And, by the way, the more they reduce interchange numbers, the more valuable Sidebottom becomes because he isn't quick but he has just about the best endurance of any mid-fielder going around, so the slower the game gets, the more he'll shine.
For the record, I wouldn't trade either. |
Thanks for answering, P4S, though I cannot agree that Sidey is way better performed than Beams, and given the choice, I really can't see any club choosing Sidey over Beams.
I also think that pick 5 is dreaming and the derisory laughter would come from the team we expect to pay that amount. Actually, I was thinking we would struggle to get pick 10, but if you are correct and we could get pick 5 or better, I would certainly entertain the thought as a way to get in the draft at a level where we could land a quality KPF.
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kill for collingwood! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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You're welcome, roar. My comparative rating of Beams and Sidebottom is not one that has been generally shared on Nick's - but it is a view I've held for a very long time (years before Beams decided to go) and I stand by it.
On the (quite hypothetical) question of Sidey's trade value, he's a pick 11 who is startlingly good - better than most top 5 picks ever become - and we've put 7 seasons of development into him. Surely Collingwood wouldn't be so silly as to let him go for a pick 10? I appreciate that if he said he wanted out, we might need to do a deal but, even so, you'd want a pick good enough to give you a shot at a Brownlow Medallist before you let a player like him go. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Seedsman, Kennedy and Karnezis would be nervous.
I wonder if Gault's position is also vulnerable, seeing as he's been on our list for a while now? |
Gault is a rookie listed player. I would be very surprised if he gets elevated.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Seedsman, Kennedy and Karnezis would be nervous.
I wonder if Gault's position is also vulnerable, seeing as he's been on our list for a while now? |
Gault is a rookie listed player. I would be very surprised if he gets elevated. |
It's fair to say, I think, that Gault hasn't improved this year. None of his VFL performances has really demanded a call-up. I had high hopes but I am concerned that he may have plateaued. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Seedsman, Kennedy and Karnezis would be nervous.
I wonder if Gault's position is also vulnerable, seeing as he's been on our list for a while now? |
Gault is a rookie listed player. I would be very surprised if he gets elevated. |
Agree, long term fan and even I don't think he's done enough to be elevated. Could in fact struggle to retain his place on the rookie list, especially with the emergence of Moore this year. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | E wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Seedsman, Kennedy and Karnezis would be nervous.
I wonder if Gault's position is also vulnerable, seeing as he's been on our list for a while now? |
Gault is a rookie listed player. I would be very surprised if he gets elevated. |
It's fair to say, I think, that Gault hasn't improved this year. None of his VFL performances has really demanded a call-up. I had high hopes but I am concerned that he may have plateaued. |
Another year struggling with injury, but how many of those does he get? |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Yes, I don't wish to be mean and I'd be happy for him to have another year (it would be especially sad if he lost his rookie spot because of the commitment to you know who and you know who) but he doesn't seem to have pushed on at all this season from what looked to be a place just on the cusp of a senior position. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Yes, I don't wish to be mean and I'd be happy for him to have another year (it would be especially sad if he lost his rookie spot because of the commitment to you know who and you know who) but he doesn't seem to have pushed on at all this season from what looked to be a place just on the cusp of a senior position. |
You'd imagine the dastardly duo would slot into Frost and Armstrong's spots. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I think Armstrong should get another year, at least. We're short of guys who can hit targets coming sideways from the back-line. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I think Armstrong should get another year, at least. We're short of guys who can hit targets coming sideways from the back-line. |
Only as a rookie, if anything. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I think Armstrong should get another year, at least. We're short of guys who can hit targets coming sideways from the back-line. |
^^^^ THIS ^^^^
Totally agree with you. We desperately need guys who can hit a target.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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