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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Where do people think Goldsack sits in our future plans? Could he be offered up for trade? His good is very good, but his ordinary is very ordinary and after a decade on our list he still hasn't nailed down a spot as his. I realise his hardness and flexibility are great assets, but with the emergence of Maynard, Oxley and Marsh I'm not sure he's needed, apart from giving us depth. Thoughts? |
If he was going to leave last time he signed a contract would have been the time. He signed with us for unders and will be a one club player
Also has very little trade value
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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Seedsman & Oxley could be used to bring in Aish, especially if Brisbane do like Paul & Oxley is a Queenslander.
Kennedy may be heading back to Adelaide if Port or Crows are interested.
Trading Witts would be a mistake, Moore still needs a couple of years to fill out and Cox is experimental and most of them don't make it.
As for Goldie, inconsistent but our list currently lacks experience so I would hang on to him. |
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Millane42
Joined: 18 Aug 2000
Location: Sydney
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Fasolo, fasolo, Fasolo
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Most of my favourite bands start with "M" - Mars Volta, Mastodon, Megadeth, Metallica, Midnight Oil, Misfits...except King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard ~ |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| derkd wrote: | | simon tonna wrote: | | For trade value I would choose Sidebottom. He would perform better at a different club, under a different coach. He is the one of a few players we have that is a good swap for who were after. He could be what it takes to get a top priority to us. |
Not such a bad idea, the reality some don't understand is that you do have to give up something of value to get something of value.
Sidebottom you would only hang out if you had a chance at say Dangerfield. |
I would not trade Sidebottom for Dangerfield. Dangerfield is a great player and I want him but I see no merit at all in trading out your second-best player to get a second-best midfielder, especially when the bloke you would be trading out is younger and (because he never had any pace and thus will not be affected in the ordinary way by a loss of speed) has many more years to play than the bloke you'd be bringing in. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Pies2016 wrote: | | simon tonna wrote: | | For trade value I would choose Sidebottom. He would perform better at a different club, under a different coach. He is the one of a few players we have that is a good swap for who were after. He could be what it takes to get a top priority to us. |
And I thought I was the only one thinking that way. There was talk that the Saints were going to make a big play for him at end of 2016. Not sure whether that's because his contract runs out then or because he becomes a restricted free agent.
If it is because he becomes a restricted free agent, then considering the options at end of 2015 with Sidebottom would make sense.
I have been disappointed with him this year but that is for another thread.
There is no such thing as a free lunch and if trading Sidey means bringing in a quality KPP into the team, then I am not against it. |
The only thing I'm disappointed about with Sidebottom is that he missed 6 rounds with injury.
I'm at a loss to understand what people expect of him. He came 3rd in the Copeland in 2013, 2nd in the Copeland in 2014 and this year is the third-ranked Collingwood player in the AFL Coaches award, despite missing a third of the games played so far with injury, and has a career-high disposal average per game of 27.2, as I write - and with 7 games of 30 disposals or more. Dale Thomas, even at his peak, never got his hands on as much of the football as Sidebottom does.
It's as if he's so brilliant a player that he's cursed - the team is full of players (except Pendlebury and Swan) who are incapable of bringing to the table what Sidebottom brings to the table every week, yet exceptions are repeatedly made for guys who lack the skills to play the game and Sidey seems to be the first one whacked if he isn't perfect. It's one thing to wish he used his elite kicking skills (and he is elite on both sides of his body) to better effect and quite another thing to contemplate trading him out because he isn't perfect. It doesn't make any sense.
Let's just be blunt about this - Sidebottom is a proven finals performer and, eg, played two brilliant Grand Finals in one year for us as a teenager. Players like him are the cream on top - they aren't actually there to win week in, week out (although he is a top quality performer and plays more than his fair share of great games), they are there because when the pressure goes up a notch they have time and space and skills that the rest of your team mostly lacks. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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As I've been saying for over 2 months now, it looks like we can add Scharenberg to our list of trade bait.  |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Before or after Sidebottom? |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What happened after or after Sidebottom ? |
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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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Sharenberg
Fasolo
These boys both have great currency and would bring the best trades
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Seedsman is gone, just a matter of how
Kennedy ditto
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Get what you can/or delist
Young
Karnezis
Dwyer
Armstrong
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | simon tonna wrote: | | For trade value I would choose Sidebottom. He would perform better at a different club, under a different coach. He is the one of a few players we have that is a good swap for who were after. He could be what it takes to get a top priority to us. |
And I thought I was the only one thinking that way. There was talk that the Saints were going to make a big play for him at end of 2016. Not sure whether that's because his contract runs out then or because he becomes a restricted free agent.
If it is because he becomes a restricted free agent, then considering the options at end of 2015 with Sidebottom would make sense.
I have been disappointed with him this year but that is for another thread.
There is no such thing as a free lunch and if trading Sidey means bringing in a quality KPP into the team, then I am not against it. |
The only thing I'm disappointed about with Sidebottom is that he missed 6 rounds with injury.
I'm at a loss to understand what people expect of him. He came 3rd in the Copeland in 2013, 2nd in the Copeland in 2014 and this year is the third-ranked Collingwood player in the AFL Coaches award, despite missing a third of the games played so far with injury, and has a career-high disposal average per game of 27.2, as I write - and with 7 games of 30 disposals or more. Dale Thomas, even at his peak, never got his hands on as much of the football as Sidebottom does.
It's as if he's so brilliant a player that he's cursed - the team is full of players (except Pendlebury and Swan) who are incapable of bringing to the table what Sidebottom brings to the table every week, yet exceptions are repeatedly made for guys who lack the skills to play the game and Sidey seems to be the first one whacked if he isn't perfect. It's one thing to wish he used his elite kicking skills (and he is elite on both sides of his body) to better effect and quite another thing to contemplate trading him out because he isn't perfect. It doesn't make any sense.
Let's just be blunt about this - Sidebottom is a proven finals performer and, eg, played two brilliant Grand Finals in one year for us as a teenager. Players like him are the cream on top - they aren't actually there to win week in, week out (although he is a top quality performer and plays more than his fair share of great games), they are there because when the pressure goes up a notch they have time and space and skills that the rest of your team mostly lacks. |
The coaches have given Sidebottom votes again against Sydney. Just Swanny and him. And our top 3 in the Coaches' Award are The Captain, our Most Prolific Ballwinner of All Time and - oh yes (coughs, hides face and mutters) - that little slow guy that "disappoints" people and almost everyone on Nick's wants to trade. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Sidebottom ..... that little slow guy that "disappoints" people and almost everyone on Nick's wants to trade. |
^ This is nonsense. Almost everyone here thinks Sidebottom is one of our best six players. Only a handful want to trade him. And, frankly, they are nuts.
I don't think we should be looking at a big trade year. We should be focusing on bringing the kids we have up to top-4 standard and only look to the trade table if there is something special on offer. Yep, I know it's a thin draft (or so they say), but there really isn't anyone we want to move on except some of the ones that aren't worth much anyway. If we are going to trade, then I'd look at swapping picks for proven players. No-one over 25 though! If it takes our first rounder to get an Aish or a Bontempelli, sure, pay it and be happy. Throw in our third round pick and a fringe player to sweeten it if the lad we are after is good enough. But honestly, there is no-one on our list that is worth trading out (assuming that the likes of Swan, Sidebottom, and Pendlebury are off limits), so if we trade, then it's picks for players.
Oh, apart from Cloke. If some club wanted to take Trav's mega-contract over and offer us a top 10 pick, I'd take it.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Pies2016 wrote: | | simon tonna wrote: | | For trade value I would choose Sidebottom. He would perform better at a different club, under a different coach. He is the one of a few players we have that is a good swap for who were after. He could be what it takes to get a top priority to us. |
And I thought I was the only one thinking that way. There was talk that the Saints were going to make a big play for him at end of 2016. Not sure whether that's because his contract runs out then or because he becomes a restricted free agent.
If it is because he becomes a restricted free agent, then considering the options at end of 2015 with Sidebottom would make sense.
I have been disappointed with him this year but that is for another thread.
There is no such thing as a free lunch and if trading Sidey means bringing in a quality KPP into the team, then I am not against it. |
The only thing I'm disappointed about with Sidebottom is that he missed 6 rounds with injury.
I'm at a loss to understand what people expect of him. He came 3rd in the Copeland in 2013, 2nd in the Copeland in 2014 and this year is the third-ranked Collingwood player in the AFL Coaches award, despite missing a third of the games played so far with injury, and has a career-high disposal average per game of 27.2, as I write - and with 7 games of 30 disposals or more. Dale Thomas, even at his peak, never got his hands on as much of the football as Sidebottom does.
It's as if he's so brilliant a player that he's cursed - the team is full of players (except Pendlebury and Swan) who are incapable of bringing to the table what Sidebottom brings to the table every week, yet exceptions are repeatedly made for guys who lack the skills to play the game and Sidey seems to be the first one whacked if he isn't perfect. It's one thing to wish he used his elite kicking skills (and he is elite on both sides of his body) to better effect and quite another thing to contemplate trading him out because he isn't perfect. It doesn't make any sense.
Let's just be blunt about this - Sidebottom is a proven finals performer and, eg, played two brilliant Grand Finals in one year for us as a teenager. Players like him are the cream on top - they aren't actually there to win week in, week out (although he is a top quality performer and plays more than his fair share of great games), they are there because when the pressure goes up a notch they have time and space and skills that the rest of your team mostly lacks. |
The coaches have given Sidebottom votes again against Sydney. Just Swanny and him. And our top 3 in the Coaches' Award are The Captain, our Most Prolific Ballwinner of All Time and - oh yes (coughs, hides face and mutters) - that little slow guy that "disappoints" people and almost everyone on Nick's wants to trade. |
P4S I'm a critic of Sidey but I don't want him traded
You don't throw away top 3/4 players for someone in the same category.
You only trade them if they are going to leave anyways then you get the best deal you like in Beams case.
Trading Sidey for Dangerfield might sound enticing and I said if he wanted to go to the crows then ok.
But Sidey and Dangerfield are different type of player.
Yes I get disappointed with his games some weeks. Yes he polls well in coaches awards and the Copeland in recent years. I'm sure he's very popular among his peers. The commentators love him when he gets the ball at times and maybe because the likes of Bruce the goose wax lyrical about him several times a game my expectations are much higher.
I just get perplexed with the change in his kicking the past 2yrs to that when he of the first 3 or so years. Then he would consistently hit targets 30/40/50m lace out several times a game. Now he looks for dinky little kicks or handballs.
I said is this a change in his role or is it the inexperience of the players around him that have forced the changes.
As for ave disposals and how many times he gets 30 I put little faith in these stats. Many players get 30+ these days but that's more to do with the way the game is played. Swan got 40+ the other week but they weren't 40 great ones half were good the other half not so much. Cyril ave 12-15 a week but impacts the scoreboard for 2-4 goals and a couple score assists so what's more valuable to winning a game Swans 40+ or Cyril's 3 goals and 2 goal assists ?
Any way back on topic don't trade him we lack experience and we lack elite kicks which he is (we just don't see it as much as I want to)
Trade fringe players or players we have many like for like of like HBF we seem to have 4 or 5.
Scharenberg wants to go home his trade bait. Lions like Seedsman and Oxley wants to go home trade them.
Witts no not at the moment. If Grundy goes down with long term injury who do we play ? Moore ? Cox ? No Moore is a forward long term and vital to our fortunes over the next decade. Moore Cloke Reid in time and matches together to work out a system will be a very hard match up. Add Elliott Fasalo who both play above there height and we only need a elite small forward crumbed type to complete the ford line. Cox is a work in progress but more than likely 2yrs away still.
So Witts is a must keep. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Tannin wrote: | | ^ This is nonsense. Almost everyone here thinks Sidebottom is one of our best six players. Only a handful want to trade him. And, frankly, they are nuts. |
Couldn't agree more. Sidebum hasn't set the world on fire but if we were to lose him (after losing Beams), the team is stuffed. He is a top ten player at Collingwood and surely we cant afford to lose such players on a regular basis? Even the bloody nutters at Nick's should see that this will be a really dumb trade? 
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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| Lazza wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | ^ This is nonsense. Almost everyone here thinks Sidebottom is one of our best six players. Only a handful want to trade him. And, frankly, they are nuts. |
Couldn't agree more. Sidebum hasn't set the world on fire but if we were to lose him (after losing Beams), the team is stuffed. He is a top ten player at Collingwood and surely we cant afford to lose such players on a regular basis? Even the bloody nutters at Nick's should see that this will be a really dumb trade? |
Agreed Sidey is one of the genuine classy players we have, unfortunately his confidence is shot at the moment. Wouldn't be trading him unless it was for Chad Morrison , Mitch Robinson, Chad Winguard and Stefan Martins socks.
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Mr Burns 17
Joined: 10 May 2004
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| Kennedy has zero value. Will be delisted rather than traded. Seedsman's currency is possibly a third rounder at absolute best. Scharenberg would not get us a first rounder as he has only played two games. And to even place Karnezis as a possible trade name. Turn it up. Will be delisted. |
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