Labor to turn back the boats.

[stui magpie]

I gave it 2 days, no-one else put it up, so I will.

2 days ago, prior to the ALP national conference, Bill Shorten signalled that he would largely mirror coalition policy on dealing with people smugglers and boats.

Richard Marles, shadow minister for immigration wrote this quite good (IMO) article for the Herald Sun.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/why-labor-will-turn-back-asylum-seeker-boats/story-fnpp4dl6-1227452939807

My summary, what he's saying is the coalition policy works, so they'll follow the same principles just do it in a more humane manner while also increasing the refugee intake from legit sources and put more effort into that.

It's going to cop some spirited discussion at the ALP conference and promises to be a bit of a test of Shortens leadership. At least 1 union has supposedly threatened to break ranks with the Labor Left to make sure Shorten gets his way, make of that what you will.

Personally, I think it's a good move.

I agree with the philosophy of stopping the boats and stopping the people smugglers. I also agree with the philosophy of putting more resource and money into the people waiting in refugee camps.

Politically it neutralises a Labor weakness at worst and at best makes it a slight strength. Boat people is a hot button of the public, adopting the stance of the left to just let em all in would be political suicide. By taking this stance, Labor would be saying they are the same as the coalition, but nicer. One large issue rendered a non issue, no political mileage to be made, removes it from the table and (potentially) makes the forthcoming election about other issues. Smart move.

This is pretty much the first stanza of Labor showing their policy hand. It will be interesting to see how it goes from here. If they're smart, this would be the blueprint. Expect to see more of this, with the big points of difference being kept up the sleeve til campaign time.

Sorry David, little Bill may be in it for the long haul.

[Dave The Man]

Labor and Liberal are almost the exact same now

[stui magpie]

In some ways Dave, not in others.

The trick is to identify the areas of difference and sell them hard, those are the areas that then decide elections.

[Mugwump]

[Tannin]

• 1: It's a sensible, pragmatic political move.
  
• 2: It is very cynical and unprincipled, though on a cynicism scale of 1 to 10 with Abbott the benchmark 10, it's only about a 7 - which is still very bad.
  
• 3: Abbott's dreadful policy didn't "stop the boats", by far the biggest factor in stopping the boats was the dual introduction of offshore processing and a cast-iron promise that, as of that day, no-one arriving illegally by boat would be resettled in Australia. This fundamental change came about under Rudd Mark II. After that, all Abbott's insane cruelty and secrecy was just about pointless, the real work was already done. But note carefully: while it was Rudd Mark II who stopped the boats, he only did that because Abbott & Co made it politically impossible for him to do anything much else, so while any honest assessment of practical effect must credit the Rudd Mark II policy with the lion's share of the work, the moral credit belongs to Abbott. (Or, if you regard stopping the boats as a bad thing, then the moral discredit.)
  
• 4: Labor are promising to double the actual refugee intake, which is a very good thing indeed. Note that the people allowed in under this policy will (just as they were under Rudd II) be bona fide refugees under the auspices of UNHCR - i.e., not the economic migrants and the queue jumpers. Full credit to Labor here.
  
• 5: None of this will do anything whatsoever to deal with the real problem in Australia, which is not the tiny handful of informal refugees trying to arrive by boat, nor the tiny number of formal refugees we take through channels, the problem it is the massive number of economic migrants we bring in every damn year, straining our economy, reducing our living standards, buggering up our cities and our environment, and pissing off most Australians right royally. Time after time after time the people of Australia, when polled, vote overwhelming against high immigration, but nearly all the politicians in Canberra do not give a stuff. Shorten is just as bad as Abbott in this regard. Big business wants population growth at any cost and the pollies can't bend over and grease up fast enough. This whole boats thing is nothing but a smoke screen to distract us from the real problem.
  
• 6: Top post, Stui. I don't agree with all of it, but well expressed and argued.
  
• 7: But I'll have to pull you up on your claim that Labor isn't announcing any big points of difference yet. They announced a whopper this week, a 50% renewable energy target and a long-overdue ETS. That's a much bigger announcement than this relatively minor adjustment to boat arrival policy, and it could not be more different from the other mob's disgraceful stance.
  

[Mugwump]

^ I agree with that, Tannin. The belief in the beneficence of large-scale immigration happens to bring together the right, who know that it drives down low-skill labour costs and drives demand growth, and the Left, which see it as an expression of their universalism, or (less charitably) a counter to national traditions and continuities that they dislike.

Accordingly, for too long, support for it has been religious, with any dissent regarded as heretical.

[Dangles]

What about the Greens point of view about how turning the boats back is just telling them to go and die somewhere else? Do you guys think that's a valid point?

[stui magpie]

[Mugwump]

[Mugwump]

[Tannin]

[Wokko]

[Tannin]

A quite excellent post, Mugwamp. I admire your solid reasoning, outstanding clear expression, and thoughtful, practical conclusions immensely, and concur in every respect, bar one. As is the nature of things, this is the one I will respond to.

[Mugwump]

^ fair enough, Tannin. I wasn;t actually trying to tar all of the Left, which is why i referred to " a kind of Leftism" . I'm not sure it is restricted to the Fitzroy hipsters, though.

The Left I admire is one which has a hard-eyed and realistic view of human nature, and thinks carefully about long-term consequences - then takes practical steps to reduce inequality, expand opportunity, and put curbs on power and wealth without falling for short-termist feel-good idealism. That's all I meant.

[Skids]