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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Post subject: Reclaim Australia |  |
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<Split from 'ISIS' thread>
[ISIS would] be Loving the Protests as they can Recurit more Members
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| From whom, DTM? Inner-city hipsters who wear their anti-racism like a fashion statement? |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | From whom, DTM? Inner-city hipsters who wear their anti-racism like a fashion statement? |
Because Muslims will be Pissed at People Protesting against them
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | From whom, DTM? Inner-city hipsters who wear their anti-racism like a fashion statement? |
Ouch. 
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ If you drew up a Venn diagram between socialists and 'hipsters', you probably wouldn't get a huge crossover. Hipsters are generally too apathetic, and hardcore 'anti-racism' protesters are generally too unfashionable (which is no insult, mind you).
I can't say I'm exactly in love with the tactics of many of the people who attend these anti-racism rallies, but they're certainly doing a lot more good than the people they're opposing. This 'Reclaim Australia' movement is a pretty worrying phenomenon, and at least this weekend's counter-protesters realise that.
One thing they get wrong, though, is that these people are generally not Nazis. They would be much more insignificant and easier to dismiss if they were. In reality, they're not all that far from the mainstream. Our prime minister's refusal to condemn them is very telling, as is the apparently unhindered decision of one of his backbenchers to openly endorse the movement.
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Last edited by David on Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| David wrote: | ^ If you drew up a Venn diagram between socialists and 'hipsters', you probably wouldn't get a huge crossover. Hipsters are generally too apathetic, and hardcore 'anti-racism' protesters are generally too unfashionable (which is no insult, mind you).
I can't say I'm exactly in love with the tactics of many of the people who attend these anti-racism rallies, but they're certainly doing a lot more good than the people they're opposing. This 'Reclaim Australia' movement is a pretty worrying phenomenon, and at least this weekend's counter-protesters realise that.
One thing they get wrong, though, is that these people are generally not Nazis. They would be much more insignificant and easier to dismiss if they were. In reality, they're not all that far from the mainstream. Our prime minister's refusal to condemn them is very telling, as is the apparently unhindered decision of one of his backbenchers to openly endorse the movement. |
Ah, yes - I was using the term "hipster" in its more generic sense. I didn't have in mind people who are "Hipsters". My bad. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Because Muslims will be Pissed at People Protesting against them |
Rubbish. They don't drink. Read the Koran.
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | From whom, DTM? Inner-city hipsters who wear their anti-racism like a fashion statement? |
Because Muslims will be Pissed at People Protesting against them |
Total rubbish!
Muslims who are willing to join ISIS won't be motivated because of a protest occurring in the city but because they find the Wahhabist and Khariji ideologies that these types of groups espouse appealing. On top of this, events that have transpired in the Middle East in the last decade or so has further perpetuated the appeal of these ideologies that ISIS espouse and support.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | I can't say I'm exactly in love with the tactics of many of the people who attend these anti-racism rallies, but they're certainly doing a lot more good than the people they're opposing.
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I don't know much about Reclaim Australia, which probably attracts a lot of Hansenite fruitcakes.... a moderate movement protesting that large-scale immigration of people with very different values to our own is not in our interests, and needs to be very carefully rationed, however, would have my support.
Some people would feel better about themselves by counter-protesting that this view is "racist", according to their demagogic definition of that term. I can live without their approval, as I think they do great harm.
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Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | I can't say I'm exactly in love with the tactics of many of the people who attend these anti-racism rallies, but they're certainly doing a lot more good than the people they're opposing. This 'Reclaim Australia' movement is a pretty worrying phenomenon, and at least this weekend's counter-protesters realise that.
One thing they get wrong, though, is that these people are generally not Nazis. They would be much more insignificant and easier to dismiss if they were. In reality, they're not all that far from the mainstream. Our prime minister's refusal to condemn them is very telling, as is the apparently unhindered decision of one of his backbenchers to openly endorse the movement. |
Reclaim Australia have the right to protest! Many will believe their cause is ridiculous and has no substance but they shouldn't be denied the right to protest in a peaceful manner which is something the anti-racist groups (also a front for actually being pro-socialist groups) undermine and denied to them right here.
My concern isn't only directed towards Reclaim Australia which is vulnerable to real far-right extremist groups glomming onto them but also with these left wing groups that think it's alright to be violent and disruptive for the sake of apparently protecting a group of people even though their modus operandi is always to intimidate those who are actually trying to protest peacefully. So I actually find them to be a 'worrying phenomenon' in a democratic country like ours considering they always exclaim that their for 'freedom of speech' yet they deny those people the very right to exercise it if doesn't align with their own views.
Chris Kenny on Sky News this evening summed it up best here:
| Quote: | | 'Here you have one group of Australians who are paranoid about the Muslim community confronted by another group of Australians who are hateful anarchists and leftist who want to denounce their fellow Australians. We get this horrible confrontation in our city and even innocent people are being caught up in them, denounced and set upon'. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Jezza wrote: | | Reclaim Australia have the right to protest! Many will believe their cause is ridiculous and has no substance but they shouldn't be denied the right to protest in a peaceful manner which is something the anti-racist groups (also a front for actually being pro-socialist groups) undermine and denied to them right here. |
None of this relates to anything I said. Of course I believe Reclaim Australia should have the right to protest. Some members of the anti-racism groups may believe otherwise, but that's irrelevant; the fact that they show up to a counter-protest is not in any way negating or curtailing Reclaim's right to freedom of expression. (The exception is specific acts of violence and physical threat, which is usually only caused by a small minority of hotheads on both sides – those actions are obviously unlawful and I would condemn them like anyone else.)
Mugwump, there is nothing rational about Reclaim Australia. I'd also be fine with a nuanced discussion of immigration and culture, but Reclaim are fighting Halal Vegemite bogeymen and Sharia Law phantoms. Even their name declares their tenuous grip on reality – what exactly is supposed to have happened to Australia, and what are we 'reclaiming' it from?
I think Abbott and his fellow-travellers deserve a lot of the blame for this, because their constant whipping up of hysteria over foreign regional conflicts will always stir up simmering anti-Islamic community attitudes. Which makes the Prime Minister's inability to speak out against Reclaim Australia even more damning. Australian Muslims have the right to ask to him the following question: whose side are you on?
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Yep, fair enough David, and not surprised that RA contains a lot of nutters. It seems impossible to debate these matters in a mature and thoughtful way without one side shouting "reclaim Australia !" and another shouting "Racist!" as terms of intimidation. We are poorer for that. Jezza seems to have it about right in his posts above.
In my view, our immigration policy needs to be focused primarily on what it takes to maintain Australia as a secular, rationalist post-Christian society of opportunity. That allows immigration from almost all nations, especially those in distress, but at a rate and pace that provokes a minimum of reaction on all sides.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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One of the main problems is that what many of the Reclaimers are longing for doesn't exist. If the apocalypticist is trying to claim a future heaven, the Reclaimer is trying to claim a past heaven of his childhood where his hopes and dreams are fulfilled.
And, where any change is occurring, it's economic or at a world-scale beyond anyone's control; being in the same class as new immigrants really drives home just how much of an outcast one really is.
There's nothing to listen to but Freudian anger turn outward on very vulnerable scapegoats. And if the point is an economic one, then they're completely wrong and should have a view heading much more in a direction of policies improving their own economic access and facility.
In other words, let Reclaimers carry on as we all agree, and let the counter-protesters carry on as we all agree. But they warrant listening to about as much as a child throwing a tantrum on the floor of Coles.
The more serious issues of managing economic change for the broader good, and protecting vulnerable minorities, are quite a different matter. These things always need our best analysis; and on such things Reclaimers have nothing but destructive, air-headed nonsense to contribute.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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