 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | 70 hours per week? plus overtime?
38 hours is the legislated max working hrs per week.  |
lol. I wish! Put me down for 54 hours one week & 45 hours every other week.
I've only just happened upon this thread and only read the last couple pages but, yes, I do have a cleaner. They come once a fortnight to vacuum, wash floors & bathroom etc. The hours I work, especially on my 6 day weeks, I've got better things to do on my 1 day off than housework! Same goes for the guy I pay to mow my lawns.
I pay a shiteload of tax each year, so much now that I try not to look at it because it pisses me off so much. Do I want to lose more money from my hard earned wage?? No! I work hard for it, I earn it, and then I can reward myself with my whatever I like because I know I've earned it. (like paying to upgrade to 5 star hotel in Paris later this year, my god Europe accommodation is expensive!) (or my collection of Versace mugs - do I need them? No. Do I want them? Yes. My money, my decision)
I do like Stui's idea of the get $26000 and have a much simpler tax rate. That'd do me fine! |
|
|
|
 |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| think positive wrote: |
sounds great, what about Medicare though? Would that come out of the rolling tax?
|
Once you do the real maths, the medicare levy is either just incorporated into the rolling tax or you stick it on top and adjust the rates accordingly. None of the dollars are set in stone, I haven't done the calculations, but it's the idea I'm floating
| Quote: |
To be honest though, no, I don't think anyone should be able to choose to not participate and still get a wage to live on. Everyone that can, should participate in some way.
|
I tend to agree but we currently spend so much money chasing the cheats, and they still get it anyway, that just say far kew, here's the money, that's it. You want to spend it all on drugs, that's your problem. They want to opt out, let em go, let the people who want to work do it.
| Quote: |
Did anyone notice with your tax bill you got a receipt that shows exactly where each of your tax dollars goes? Except the big green line at the bottom that says something like other expenses. Smart too, they put that one in green, it's colour coded so as not to offend! |
I tend not to read it closely, i find it depressing.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| luvdids wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | 70 hours per week? plus overtime?
38 hours is the legislated max working hrs per week. |
lol. I wish! Put me down for 54 hours one week & 45 hours every other week.
I've only just happened upon this thread and only read the last couple pages but, yes, I do have a cleaner. They come once a fortnight to vacuum, wash floors & bathroom etc. The hours I work, especially on my 6 day weeks, I've got better things to do on my 1 day off than housework! Same goes for the guy I pay to mow my lawns.
I pay a shiteload of tax each year, so much now that I try not to look at it because it pisses me off so much. Do I want to lose more money from my hard earned wage?? No! I work hard for it, I earn it, and then I can reward myself with my whatever I like because I know I've earned it. (like paying to upgrade to 5 star hotel in Paris later this year, my god Europe accommodation is expensive!) (or my collection of Versace mugs - do I need them? No. Do I want them? Yes. My money, my decision)
I do like Stui's idea of the get $26000 and have a much simpler tax rate. That'd do me fine! |
Goodonya, and there's two people who get to earn an income because you'd prefer to prioritise the small amount of free time you get ahead of doing chores. It's not like you're one of these semi mythical wealthy people sitting on their arse all day at home yelling at the servants. 
Also a great point that you don't have to work those hours, you could still live comfortably on less but you choose to do it because the extra cash you earn allows you to indulge in stuff you want. A point that would be lost on those who think the world owes them a living.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | luvdids wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | 70 hours per week? plus overtime?
38 hours is the legislated max working hrs per week. |
lol. I wish! Put me down for 54 hours one week & 45 hours every other week.
I've only just happened upon this thread and only read the last couple pages but, yes, I do have a cleaner. They come once a fortnight to vacuum, wash floors & bathroom etc. The hours I work, especially on my 6 day weeks, I've got better things to do on my 1 day off than housework! Same goes for the guy I pay to mow my lawns.
I pay a shiteload of tax each year, so much now that I try not to look at it because it pisses me off so much. Do I want to lose more money from my hard earned wage?? No! I work hard for it, I earn it, and then I can reward myself with my whatever I like because I know I've earned it. (like paying to upgrade to 5 star hotel in Paris later this year, my god Europe accommodation is expensive!) (or my collection of Versace mugs - do I need them? No. Do I want them? Yes. My money, my decision)
I do like Stui's idea of the get $26000 and have a much simpler tax rate. That'd do me fine! |
Goodonya, and there's two people who get to earn an income because you'd prefer to prioritise the small amount of free time you get ahead of doing chores. It's not like you're one of these semi mythical wealthy people sitting on their arse all day at home yelling at the servants.
Also a great point that you don't have to work those hours, you could still live comfortably on less but you choose to do it because the extra cash you earn allows you to indulge in stuff you want. A point that would be lost on those who think the world owes them a living. |
and that the truth
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I'm all in favour of the idea of a universal living wage, as I think I argued in an older (and somewhat controversial) thread. I just see it as an unconditional welfare safety net, essentially - high enough for people to be able to get by but not so high that they have no incentive to get a job.
Not sure I'd go so far as to claim it would eradicate poverty, though. People will still fall through the cracks for whatever reason. But I certainly think this would be a much better way of dealing with the problem, and might well cut out a lot of bureaucratic costs as you say. Nevertheless, I'd be very much inclined to make it a weekly payment as opposed to a lump sum to reduce the risk of people mismanaging their budgets and running out of money by March.
On points 3 and 4, I'd probably prefer to have more of a sliding scale in tax rates (say, 5% increments or even less). But I agree that the flat payment would probably eradicate the need for a tax-free threshold. Not sure about deductions as I don't immediately see a good reason to get rid of them (happy to be convinced either way).
The big question for me would be whether people who find a job should still get the $26k, or whether it should only be for students/disabled/unemployed with the minimum wage set to something balancing out to something like $30-35k, thus providing sufficient incentive to work. If you don't do that, the risk is that you end up with the government spending way more than it currently does but receiving the same or less in tax revenue. There's also the question of whether we'd still need the same minimum wage in this system because people who worked would be getting something like 50k minimum including the government payment. I don't know a lot about economics, but wouldn't this potentially send us into inflation territory? You certainly have to wonder where all the extra money would be coming from.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
On the deductions, you're giving everyone $26k. The average tax deduction per person is about $3k. No deductions, no tax return, no bureaucracy to administer it.
On your big question, as soon as you limit it by means testing you ruin the principle. You get the money regardless and you can work as much or little as you want with no fear of losing it. Uni student now does a weekend shift in a cafe it jeopardizes their centrelink which is a disincentive to work. The whole idea is everyone gets it regardless.
Think of all the people who could follow their passion and do volunteer work in their field of interest if they didn't have to work to pay the bills.
The economics would be interesting. It would certainly stir things up for a while but I think it would be self correcting after the first 18 months.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ I feel like this is more of a mathematical issue than a political one. I broadly agree with where you're going with this, and it's not totally unreasonable to guess that the figures might balance out in the long run – but it could just as well be the case that they don't, and you'd need to do some pretty solid number-crunching to establish that this plan doesn't leave a massive black hole in revenue.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
You're an absolute clown, living in a bubble for way too long!
I've worked away for over a decade, I sacrifice: Christmas with my family, being home for their birthdays, weddings, get togethers for the hell of it & other public holidays etc.
I work 12 hour shifts in conditions that you wouldn't even know existed!
Because of what I do I've got a '66 convertible Mustang, shares in a couple of race horses, a nice car for the missus, whatever I want in the fridge, a teeny mortgage and &%%& yeah... a dog I paid $1800 for!
You want me to share it with some lazy arse, good for nothing, tin pot loser just 'coz he can't help himself, wants to smoke ciggys and live like a pig? &%%& him and &%%& you!
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Skids - don't know if you have ever watched Shirley Valentine ( the Mrs may have) - she has a conversation with the wall in her in her kitchen - lot of similarities 
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Skids wrote: | You're an absolute clown, living in a bubble for way too long!
I've worked away for over a decade, I sacrifice: Christmas with my family, being home for their birthdays, weddings, get togethers for the hell of it & other public holidays etc.
I work 12 hour shifts in conditions that you wouldn't even know existed!
Because of what I do I've got a '66 convertible Mustang, shares in a couple of race horses, a nice car for the missus, whatever I want in the fridge, a teeny mortgage and &%%& yeah... a dog I paid $1800 for!
You want me to share it with some lazy arse, good for nothing, tin pot loser just 'coz he can't help himself, wants to smoke ciggys and live like a pig? &%%& him and &%%& you! |
^ Skids, I like a lot of your work on here, but that's out of order. I disagree with David hugely on this, but he's a conscientious bloke who thinks that those at the bottom - for whatever reason - do it tough and need more help from those that have a fair bit. I can disagree strongly but respect that, and I think you should too. You made your argument above, but the abuse around it undermines that argument.
FWIW David also spends a lot of unpaid time on here moderating, contributing, gardening the board, and starting threads that keep us interested when I couldn't be bothered. He also takes a lot of personal criticism about his lifestyle which is not warranted or fair, and gives very little back. Credit where due.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Skids wrote: | You're an absolute clown, living in a bubble for way too long!
I've worked away for over a decade, I sacrifice: Christmas with my family, being home for their birthdays, weddings, get togethers for the hell of it & other public holidays etc.
I work 12 hour shifts in conditions that you wouldn't even know existed!
Because of what I do I've got a '66 convertible Mustang, shares in a couple of race horses, a nice car for the missus, whatever I want in the fridge, a teeny mortgage and &%%& yeah... a dog I paid $1800 for!
You want me to share it with some lazy arse, good for nothing, tin pot loser just 'coz he can't help himself, wants to smoke ciggys and live like a pig? &%%& him and &%%& you! |
Couple of shirley temples under the belt tonight mate? fair rant.  
You're in a similar boat to Luvdids, you could work less and still have a modestly comfortable lifestyle but you choose to work harder and sacrifice because of the rewards you get from it.
That's why there'll always be different levels of wealth even if you could level the playing field at the bottom and make sure no one was poor, people want more and are prepared to work hard to get it.
The goal should always be to lift the poor up without resorting to dragging down people like you who have worked hard to get that higher standard of living. You may not need that Mustang but by grod you worked hard for the money so if you can buy it no one should begrudge it to you.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Oh, and I got me a ticket for the US $2.1 B Powerball today/tomorrow, so if I win that I'll be redistributing a large chunk of US wealth to me
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Skids wrote: | You're an absolute clown, living in a bubble for way too long!
I've worked away for over a decade, I sacrifice: Christmas with my family, being home for their birthdays, weddings, get togethers for the hell of it & other public holidays etc.
I work 12 hour shifts in conditions that you wouldn't even know existed!
Because of what I do I've got a '66 convertible Mustang, shares in a couple of race horses, a nice car for the missus, whatever I want in the fridge, a teeny mortgage and &%%& yeah... a dog I paid $1800 for!
You want me to share it with some lazy arse, good for nothing, tin pot loser just 'coz he can't help himself, wants to smoke ciggys and live like a pig? &%%& him and &%%& you! |
If only the world were this simple, where there was a direct correlation between hard work and income. Of course, this is very often not the case; hence, someone can work hard in a shit job on absolute minimum wage while someone else plays a guitar now and then and gets paid millions. Likewise, some people stay unemployed because they're lazy, while others live in places with few jobs available and can't get anything no matter how hard they try. The world is not the hierarchy that you'd like it to be, where the hardest workers get the rewards and everyone else can get stuffed. And even if it was, you'd still have to pay taxes, because you benefit from the good of the whole as much as any of us do, so why do you act as though you're a victim because a small percentage of your income is redirected into maximising the public good?
You say I live in a bubble; I think you've possibly been down in the mines too long.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | Skids wrote: | You're an absolute clown, living in a bubble for way too long!
I've worked away for over a decade, I sacrifice: Christmas with my family, being home for their birthdays, weddings, get togethers for the hell of it & other public holidays etc.
I work 12 hour shifts in conditions that you wouldn't even know existed!
Because of what I do I've got a '66 convertible Mustang, shares in a couple of race horses, a nice car for the missus, whatever I want in the fridge, a teeny mortgage and &%%& yeah... a dog I paid $1800 for!
You want me to share it with some lazy arse, good for nothing, tin pot loser just 'coz he can't help himself, wants to smoke ciggys and live like a pig? &%%& him and &%%& you! |
If only the world were this simple, where there was a direct correlation between hard work and income. Of course, this is very often not the case; hence, someone can work hard in a shit job on absolute minimum wage while someone else plays a guitar now and then and gets paid millions. Likewise, some people stay unemployed because they're lazy, while others live in places with few jobs available and can't get anything no matter how hard they try. The world is not the hierarchy that you'd like it to be, where the hardest workers get the rewards and everyone else can get stuffed. And even if it was, you'd still have to pay taxes, because you benefit from the good of the whole as much as any of us do, so why do you act as though you're a victim because a small percentage of your income is redirected into maximising the public good?
You say I live in a bubble; I think you've possibly been down in the mines too long. |
He's not playing the victim, he's justifying his entitlement to spend his hard earned on what he chooses AFTER the taxes have been taken out. As is everyone else above if you read their post properly. Like my not so tongue in cheek and definitely not sarcastic crack about my home gym, your comments re the vintage car rub the wrong way.
No one here is suggesting we shouldn't pay tax, we just don't like being told we should pay more because we have more than enough to keep us comfortable, Whether or not it was gained through elbow grease, brains, or inherited.
Not one person here begrudges the real needy, the sick, the old, those that genuinely cannot gain employment for whatever reason, be it retraining needed, whatever, or the guy busting his arse, but can't make reasonable ends meet, no matter how hard he tries, yes give him a hand. But yes, **** the guy who makes no effort.
Gotta go now, paperwork , got a collectable car getting registered tomorrow!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It's definitely the most innovative view out there, Stui. It really changes the mindset and leaps over most of the old arguments. I like it as an idea; are there any obvious critiques of it?
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
