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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Wokko wrote: | You know the answer, Mug.
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I know, it's just perversely amusing pointing out the more outrageous ones. 
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | The tax system is/should not be a means of wealth distribution. Tax is the governments revenue collection used to pay for services. |
What does the loaded term mean (wealth redistribution)? |
Not my loaded term to define as it appears to be defined variously depending on context, but thanks for the speech. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Doc63 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | The tax system is/should not be a means of wealth distribution. Tax is the governments revenue collection used to pay for services. |
Not according to the radical left wing nutter.
In his country, if your smart enough, or work hard enough (i.e; get of your arse) to earn a good wage, he'd take more off of you, and give it to those who are lazy or thick as two planks.
This approach has worked really well in other countries. |
It would be better than the vision of your current Liberal party member who after being born into a life of privilege, wealth and exclusive private schools have no real idea of those kids who aren't yet think it's appropriate to implement harsh welfare reform which will hurt those who don't have much to begin with.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: |
Except, David, much of the time there is no basis at all whatsoever for the claims being made that, say, a better-educated workforce will make us poorer. |
Can you provide the source for that claim ? Or, for that matter, where anyone has claimed that we should focus "narrowly" on natural resources?
Both seem extremely silly things to say, and I'd be interested to know who says so. |
Whoops, I forgot fundamentalists lack abstract reasoning skills!
Yes, my source is the actual budgets and policies of said ideologues. Some of us don't follow the PR nonsense, we follow the actual behaviour.
I will spell it out for you, because you seem to be struggling again. Both are in reference to the Abbott government.
Both are implicatures, the first based on the decision to make education more expensive and therefore make it more difficult to access in order to "balance the budget" today. Such decisions mean the returns to more education have been assumed to be less than the returns to less funding for such education.
In the case of the narrow natural resources focus, that's just simply Australian Glib policy.
Okay, it's true those two are strongly Australian, where David lives (lol), of a list of 38 BS actual nonsense assumptions one could list that require no abstract thought (a calculation too far, apparently), because that's all you've got to work with against the point being made.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| pietillidie wrote: | Whoops, I forgot fundamentalists lack abstract reasoning skills!
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Indeed, yes
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Well, why didn't you connect the dots yourself? Why did I have to explain the obvious to you?
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| swoop42 wrote: |
It would be better than the vision of your current Liberal party member who after being born into a life of privilege, wealth and exclusive private schools have no real idea of those kids who aren't yet think it's appropriate to implement harsh welfare reform which will hurt those who don't have much to begin with. |
So how would you suggest dealing with the welfare trap? Many people will continue to take as much effort free money as the state is willing to take off others who work for it.
While there are certainly many people who need help, there are many more who are happy to take what is given and keep taking it forever. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | What's all this stuff about "my country" or "radical left-wing nuttery"? I was obviously being ironic. Tax is wealth redistribution. If you support even the most basic welfare system, then you support wealth redistribution.
I'm honestly flabbergasted that so many of you could be confused about this. |
I worked hard for my money & so did my wife. I'm not here to fund you lazy good for nothing welfare bludgers. Only real people in need & the deserving poor need assistance, & I'll tell you who is deserving. It's only those who create wealth that deserve tax breaks. Only those without money talk about wealth redistribution. I mean look at Warren Buffett.
it? |
I know your being sarcastic, but you've hit the nail on the head
Thought this was the movie thread actually, this is the twilight zone, I'm sure we've been here before!
(For those who don't remember the first instalment of the saga, don't mention your inheritance!) |
But that's very emotional, very short-term thinking. Not only is it impossible for you to judge who deserves what from afar, but for those you punish as undeserving, you're damaging their families. Those families then absorb that punishment as stress, which we know increases dysfunction. That dysfunction is costly: Lower productive contribution to society, higher medical bills, etc.
So in your desire to punish, you have just made society and yourself worse off. But you won't see the effects of that except in the statistics down the track.
Knowing that, isn't it better to be disciplined and get higher rewards tomorrow rather than to take the pleasure of satisfying your anger today?
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Wokko wrote: | | Many people will continue to take as much effort free money as the state is willing to take off others who work for it. |
Correct! These people are easy to identify.With few exceptions, they drive luxury cars, live in enormous houses, and wear very expensive designer watches, all of this paid for by the honest taxpayer while they, the luxury car-driving, Liberal-voting parasites, grow even richer on rampant negative gearing, CGT discounts, extortionate expense claims, superannuation boondoggles, tax-free family trusts, and offshore havens. None of these things are available to the ordinary worker, of course, only to the wealthy few, and it's the ordinary working Australian who carries them on the sweat of his back.
| Wokko wrote: | | While there are certainly many people who need help, there are many more who are happy to take what is given and keep taking it forever. |
Just so. Exhibit A: Mr. J. Hockey.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: |
It would be better than the vision of your current Liberal party member who after being born into a life of privilege, wealth and exclusive private schools have no real idea of those kids who aren't yet think it's appropriate to implement harsh welfare reform which will hurt those who don't have much to begin with. |
So how would you suggest dealing with the welfare trap? Many people will continue to take as much effort free money as the state is willing to take off others who work for it.
While there are certainly many people who need help, there are many more who are happy to take what is given and keep taking it forever. |
How many more? What are the numbers? You seem to have a strong opinion on this, so we can assume you have run the calculations here, and know what the negative return is.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Doc63 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | The tax system is/should not be a means of wealth distribution. Tax is the governments revenue collection used to pay for services. |
Not according to the radical left wing nutter.
In his country, if your smart enough, or work hard enough (i.e; get of your arse) to earn a good wage, he'd take more off of you, and give it to those who are lazy or thick as two planks.
This approach has worked really well in other countries. |
It would be better than the vision of your current Liberal party member who after being born into a life of privilege, wealth and exclusive private schools have no real idea of those kids who aren't yet think it's appropriate to implement harsh welfare reform which will hurt those who don't have much to begin with. |
Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. My original question still hasn't been answered by the person of whom it was asked.
What does he mean by the term "wealth distribution", and how would he go about it.
I don't expect a coherent answer.
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I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Haven't I? That's ok, I don't mind repeating myself if necessary: I believe in wealth redistribution through the taxation system, just like what we have now, except I'd raise the rate for the top end of town and raise government spending on welfare accordingly.
If that's not coherent enough, try this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suVB3YGIUk0
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| That is a hypothetical question. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Deja Vu all over again.
David, how do you keep the wealth, wealthy and talented in your country and stop it fleeing overseas (International Communist revolution aside). |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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I do not, repeat not believe in wealth redistribution through the taxation system.
I do, however, believe in fair and equitable outcomes. The phrase "equal pay for equal work" doesn't cover all the bases but if you start with that you'll get the general idea. At present in this country, we have a grossly distorted system which allows unscrupulous individuals to gather to themselves vast amounts of unearned wealth, or at best very, very easily gained wealth at the expense of others, usually the very same others that created most of that wealth in the first place.
Here in Australia we regularly hear very peculiar phrase. People talk about "making money". They use that phrase all the time. And yet what they are actually doing, in the majority of cases, is not "making" money at all, it's just transferring it out of some other bugger's pocket and into your own. Making money is where you create something of value and then sell it or rent it out or otherwise turn that extra value you created into money. Very, very few of our wealthy citizens created much of value. A few did, but most of them just found creative ways to syphon existing value some other poor bugger created into their own pockets.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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