PRISON SMOKING BAN
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| I just keep laughing at this thread and shake my head. |
|
|
|
 |
Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | Geezus, this isn't even worthy of debate, of course the government can decide to stop smoking in prisons. 
Prison staff have as much right to a smoke free work environment as everyone else. You can't smoke in restaurants, pubs, bars of cafes any more, you can't smoke at work any more, you can't smoke within 4 metres of a government building in Victoria anymore, why on gods earth would anyone logically think that prisoners deserve an exemption?
They are provided with the option of nicotine replacement treatment, so that helps deal with the chemical addiction part, the rest is psychological. Get over it.
I have a sneaking bit of sympathy for those on remand waiting for trial but only a sneaking bit. If having to give up smoking is the worse part of being in prison, something is NQR.
So this little tanty demonstration will just make sure they get zero sympathy from the officials. After a week or so of cold turkey the chemical part is gone, so they can just get over it. |
Nope, not according to the inner city lefties on this site. The poor, misunderstood prisoners have more rights than employees working there.
After all, the prison officers have a choice, don't they? They don't have to work there.
_________________
I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Stui magpie wrote: | You think that government officials sit down thinking "how can we screw over some prisoners today"? The way it happens is that the government is lobbied about why the hell are they providing cigarettes to prison inmates and the question is "give me good reason why we should keep giving them cigarettes", and there isn't one.
There's no good reasons why they should keep providing smokes and lots of good reasons why they should stop it. |
Thanks, that makes sense. I still disagree, though. Given that prisoners are entirely at the mercy of the prison system, it follows that anything not provided to them is effectively banned.
If your principle were maintained, then there'd be a hell of a lot of things that would fit that category. Unhealthy food, for instance. I don't know if prisoners get snacks, but I can see how they might be opposed on the same principle.
Culprit can laugh all he likes, but there's actually a really interesting discussion at stake here. We know that imprisonment necessarily entails loss of liberty, but how far should that go? What freedoms should they still be entitled to?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Doc63
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: Newport
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Why don't we just let them all get pissed as well.
_________________
I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | so your happy to foot the bill for the cancers and other diseases from 2nd smoke for the officers, other prisoners, etc, and also, to look after the families? |
Is that really the issue here? Admittedly, I haven't had time to read any articles on this � just been listening to the radio while ferrying boxes from Coburg to Hampton � but I haven't yet heard anything about a specific concern for prison guards' welfare.
Would it have been so bad to allow smoking in outdoor, or designated areas? |
U , it's a prison! Someone has to supervise them! Or they go one at a time? Still need someone to coordinate!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Imagine if cigarettes never existed till now.
Imagine again trying to now market the product of cigarettes having to truthfully detail all the associated health risks we now know and chemicals contained within.
They'd never get the financial backing let alone end up on the shelf and you'd be laughed out of the room.
I mean who would willingly puff on a cancer stick?
It's hilarious that a product without any positive value at all is legal while something like marijuana that can be of benefit in certain circumstances isn't.
I'd ban them entirely for all over a 2 year period but governments are so reliant on the taxes earned it will never happen.
Humans are dumb.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yup exactly
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | Stui magpie wrote: | You think that government officials sit down thinking "how can we screw over some prisoners today"? The way it happens is that the government is lobbied about why the hell are they providing cigarettes to prison inmates and the question is "give me good reason why we should keep giving them cigarettes", and there isn't one.
There's no good reasons why they should keep providing smokes and lots of good reasons why they should stop it. |
Thanks, that makes sense. I still disagree, though. Given that prisoners are entirely at the mercy of the prison system, it follows that anything not provided to them is effectively banned.
If your principle were maintained, then there'd be a hell of a lot of things that would fit that category. Unhealthy food, for instance. I don't know if prisoners get snacks, but I can see how they might be opposed on the same principle.
Culprit can laugh all he likes, but there's actually a really interesting discussion at stake here. We know that imprisonment necessarily entails loss of liberty, but how far should that go? What freedoms should they still be entitled to? |
Their "freedoms" have been suspended for the term of their sentence.
They are entitled to food, clothing, hygiene, shelter, safety, medical care and not much else.
They aren't allowed alcohol. the food they are provided with is what's cooked daily. Don't like it, go hungry. They don't get a menu to choose lunch from, it's a prison not a resort.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | Imagine if cigarettes never existed till now.
Imagine again trying to now market the product of cigarettes having to truthfully detail all the associated health risks we now know and chemicals contained within.
They'd never get the financial backing let alone end up on the shelf and you'd be laughed out of the room.
I mean who would willingly puff on a cancer stick?
It's hilarious that a product without any positive value at all is legal while something like marijuana that can be of benefit in certain circumstances isn't.
I'd ban them entirely for all over a 2 year period but governments are so reliant on the taxes earned it will never happen.
Humans are dumb. |
Comedy classic Bob Newhart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDxAzVEbN4
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Stui magpie wrote: | You think that government officials sit down thinking "how can we screw over some prisoners today"? The way it happens is that the government is lobbied about why the hell are they providing cigarettes to prison inmates and the question is "give me good reason why we should keep giving them cigarettes", and there isn't one.
There's no good reasons why they should keep providing smokes and lots of good reasons why they should stop it. |
Thanks, that makes sense. I still disagree, though. Given that prisoners are entirely at the mercy of the prison system, it follows that anything not provided to them is effectively banned.
If your principle were maintained, then there'd be a hell of a lot of things that would fit that category. Unhealthy food, for instance. I don't know if prisoners get snacks, but I can see how they might be opposed on the same principle.
Culprit can laugh all he likes, but there's actually a really interesting discussion at stake here. We know that imprisonment necessarily entails loss of liberty, but how far should that go? What freedoms should they still be entitled to? |
Their "freedoms" have been suspended for the term of their sentence.
They are entitled to food, clothing, hygiene, shelter, safety, medical care and not much else.
They aren't allowed alcohol. the food they are provided with is what's cooked daily. Don't like it, go hungry. They don't get a menu to choose lunch from, it's a prison not a resort. |
They are in remand which means they are yet to be sentenced. The reaction of the people will change WHEN someone dies. Only takes one looney. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Doc63 wrote: | | Why don't we just let them all get pissed as well. |
Easy. Cigarettes don't have any negative behavioural affects.
If they have alcohol, they might get drunk and riot. 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I keep laughing as If you have been in the Prison system especially Remand you would have a different viewpoint. Many people in remand are in there for non payment of traffic fines. In remand you have a mixture of prisoners that have all been thrown in together from Murderer to a drink driver. In remand you have people in there that could be innocent but cannot make bail. Remand is the first introduction to the school of crime for many. It's very volatile as it is and to make it more volatile even though warned about the situation on all sides it is just plain stupid. It's not a prison for serving your term, it's where you go whilst you wait to be convicted, sentenced or you sign the sorry book and get released. If it was a resort, people would not want to break out or avoid going there. It's probably one of the harshest places to be housed in whilst you wait for your results so to speak.
For all those pulling the self righteous card and no rights and rights bullshit etc, sorry you haven't got a clue what transpires inside especially in remand. The reality is it's not your corner pub, it's a prison yard where the strongest survive. Where unless you're in a group you are prone to be bashed, raped and sodomized. Loners don't last, it's the animal kingdom for humans. Someone will die in prison from the sheer anxiety of a minority who cannot handle the withdrawal of tobacco and explode. I know people who are not in prison, to go without a cigarette is mentally a struggle. If I forced the same withdrawal onto a mentally unstable prisoner would they act the same. What do we do if he stabs joe blogs to death who is doing time for non payment of traffic fines?
Make a smoking area for prisoners and the guards who smoke. It's just common sense to many. |
|
|
|
|
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | Easy. Cigarettes don't have any negative behavioural affects. |
The lack of cigarettes obviously does.......
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Culprit wrote: | I keep laughing as If you have been in the Prison system especially Remand you would have a different viewpoint. Many people in remand are in there for non payment of traffic fines. In remand you have a mixture of prisoners that have all been thrown in together from Murderer to a drink driver. In remand you have people in there that could be innocent but cannot make bail. Remand is the first introduction to the school of crime for many. It's very volatile as it is and to make it more volatile even though warned about the situation on all sides it is just plain stupid. It's not a prison for serving your term, it's where you go whilst you wait to be convicted, sentenced or you sign the sorry book and get released. If it was a resort, people would not want to break out or avoid going there. It's probably one of the harshest places to be housed in whilst you wait for your results so to speak.
For all those pulling the self righteous card and no rights and rights bullshit etc, sorry you haven't got a clue what transpires inside especially in remand. The reality is it's not your corner pub, it's a prison yard where the strongest survive. Where unless you're in a group you are prone to be bashed, raped and sodomized. Loners don't last, it's the animal kingdom for humans. Someone will die in prison from the sheer anxiety of a minority who cannot handle the withdrawal of tobacco and explode. I know people who are not in prison, to go without a cigarette is mentally a struggle. If I forced the same withdrawal onto a mentally unstable prisoner would they act the same. What do we do if he stabs joe blogs to death who is doing time for non payment of traffic fines?
Make a smoking area for prisoners and the guards who smoke. It's just common sense to many. |
maybe more people would pay their fines. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Instead of buying cancer sticks!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
