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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Izt grate habbing peeps hoo can reed and rite on thjis bored. |
who'd have thunk it on a collingwood board of all places.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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The thread title should read the AFP state the bleeding obvious.
They're an organisation who's always been a pawn of the government of the day.
In reality the major threat of terrorism is not on our shores it's in the Muslim world yet Tone would have you believe he's holding back a tidal wave of suicide bombers about to arrive on Bondi beach.
Has he forgotten the mantra of be alert but not alarmed?
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Well said, Swoop.
I think the new mantra is "Be alarmed. *Checks the poll figures* Ok, can you try being a bit more alarmed?"
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. The skeptic in me suggests that the terror threat is overblown and very minimal at best but on the other hand has the rise of ISIS in the last 12 to 18 months escalated to the point that a terror attack in Australia is 'likely'?
In reality many of us are still trying to learn and ascertain the abilities that ISIS has as a group not only in a local sense such as Syria and Iraq but how much influence it has in the wider world with supporters and financial donors from Gulf states. I have no doubt that people sympathise with Wahhabist and Khawarij groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda in the Western World and have done so for a number of years but does that mean the threat is greater now than it was five years ago? I suppose time will tell when it comes to Australia but the destabilisation of the Middle East and North Africa has actually increased the terror threat for these parts of the world.
I think it's important that people be vigilant and careful but not be in a state of panic and in the process encourage the government to introduce draconian measures that will do more harm than good for Australian citizens and protecting their freedoms.
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thebaldfacts
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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| After reading the illuminating posts from my learned colleagues on VPT, I think I will stick with the AFP. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| swoop42 wrote: | The thread title should read the AFP state the bleeding obvious.
They're an organisation who's always been a pawn of the government of the day.
In reality the major threat of terrorism is not on our shores it's in the Muslim world yet Tone would have you believe he's holding back a tidal wave of suicide bombers about to arrive on Bondi beach.
Has he forgotten the mantra of be alert but not alarmed? |
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Jezza wrote: | I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. The skeptic in me suggests that the terror threat is overblown and very minimal at best but on the other hand has the rise of ISIS in the last 12 to 18 months escalated to the point that a terror attack in Australia is 'likely'?
In reality many of us are still trying to learn and ascertain the abilities that ISIS has as a group not only in a local sense such as Syria and Iraq but how much influence it has in the wider world with supporters and financial donors from Gulf states. I have no doubt that people sympathise with Wahhabist and Khawarij groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda in the Western World and have done so for a number of years but does that mean the threat is greater now than it was five years ago? I suppose time will tell when it comes to Australia but the destabilisation of the Middle East and North Africa has actually increased the terror threat for these parts of the world.
I think it's important that people be vigilant and careful but not be in a state of panic and in the process encourage the government to introduce draconian measures that will do more harm than good for Australian citizens and protecting their freedoms. |
It's definitely energised a few fruit-bats, as we saw with the Charlie Hedbo attack and of course the Martin Place siege here. But these are definitely more lone wolves than co-ordinated terror attacks by ISIS-sympathising groups, a phenomenon that still seems mostly limited to the Middle East.
But that doesn't mean that we need to put a big question mark on whether the terror threat is being overblown. Of course it is, and the biggest evidence of this is the government's own irresponsible handling of it. What on earth is this whole citizenship issue, for instance, supposed to achieve apart from exciting extremists on both sides? Why the claim that an organisation fighting a regional war on the other side of the world presents an "existential" threat to Australia? Why all the flags every time Abbott or one of his ministers makes a statement on immigration or terror issues? I don't actually think it's possible for one to be too cynical when it comes to this government.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. The skeptic in me suggests that the terror threat is overblown and very minimal at best but on the other hand has the rise of ISIS in the last 12 to 18 months escalated to the point that a terror attack in Australia is 'likely'?
In reality many of us are still trying to learn and ascertain the abilities that ISIS has as a group not only in a local sense such as Syria and Iraq but how much influence it has in the wider world with supporters and financial donors from Gulf states. I have no doubt that people sympathise with Wahhabist and Khawarij groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda in the Western World and have done so for a number of years but does that mean the threat is greater now than it was five years ago? I suppose time will tell when it comes to Australia but the destabilisation of the Middle East and North Africa has actually increased the terror threat for these parts of the world.
I think it's important that people be vigilant and careful but not be in a state of panic and in the process encourage the government to introduce draconian measures that will do more harm than good for Australian citizens and protecting their freedoms. |
It's definitely energised a few fruit-bats, as we saw with the Charlie Hedbo attack and of course the Martin Place siege here. But these are definitely more lone wolves than co-ordinated terror attacks by ISIS-sympathising groups, a phenomenon that still seems mostly limited to the Middle East.
But that doesn't mean that we need to put a big question mark on whether the terror threat is being overblown. Of course it is, and the biggest evidence of this is the government's own irresponsible handling of it. What on earth is this whole citizenship issue, for instance, supposed to achieve apart from exciting extremists on both sides? Why the claim that an organisation fighting a regional war on the other side of the world presents an "existential" threat to Australia? Why all the flags every time Abbott or one of his ministers makes a statement on immigration or terror issues? I don't actually think it's possible for one to be too cynical when it comes to this government. |
Of course it is? And you know this for a fact, how? You have access to the information provided to the government by relevant security forces both ours and foreign?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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My point is, the government's rhetoric sufficiently demonstrates that they are exaggerating the threat. It is actually not logically conceivable that they are not doing so.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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They may be exaggerating it, they may not be but are choosing to leverage that threat for political mileage. The two aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm open to either option but want more in support than people's opinions
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| thebaldfacts wrote: | | After reading the illuminating posts from my learned colleagues on VPT, I think I will stick with the AFP. |
You'll find the real reason for this fluff piece was contained in the second half.
This was nothing more than an article trying to sell the Liberal policy of revoking citizenship.
It was in the Australian for FFS which is nothing more than a Liberal mouth piece pretending to be independent newspaper.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| swoop42 wrote: | | It was in the Australian for FFS which is nothing more than a Liberal mouth piece pretending to be independent newspaper. |
Sorry Swoop, I can't agree with you there. Nor could most fair observers Yes, the Oz used to be, as you say, a Liberal mouth piece pretending to be independent newspaper, but it had a whole-of-organisation change of heart half a decade ago and gave that up. (They didn't stop being a Liberal propaganda rag, of course, they just stopped pretending to be anything else.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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It is a profound danger in Europe, where there is a relatively large conservative Islamic population (so a numerically larger tail-end of extremists), greater proximity to the fervour of the Middle East, a very challenging border control situation, and a failed political project (aka the Euro) causing increasing poverty and unemployment.
But I cannot see it as an "existential threat" even here, let alone in Australia. That does not seem likely unless the extremists get their hands on nuclear or biological weapons. If they do, I can't see them importing them all the way to a sunny little democracy well south of the front line.
It is imperative that Western governments recognise Islamic extremism as posing the greatest risk of mass-murder. It already has. Australia is lower down the risk scale but not immune. But hyperbole almost always makes the case worse.
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Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| David wrote: | | Jezza wrote: | I honestly don't know what to believe anymore. The skeptic in me suggests that the terror threat is overblown and very minimal at best but on the other hand has the rise of ISIS in the last 12 to 18 months escalated to the point that a terror attack in Australia is 'likely'?
In reality many of us are still trying to learn and ascertain the abilities that ISIS has as a group not only in a local sense such as Syria and Iraq but how much influence it has in the wider world with supporters and financial donors from Gulf states. I have no doubt that people sympathise with Wahhabist and Khawarij groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda in the Western World and have done so for a number of years but does that mean the threat is greater now than it was five years ago? I suppose time will tell when it comes to Australia but the destabilisation of the Middle East and North Africa has actually increased the terror threat for these parts of the world.
I think it's important that people be vigilant and careful but not be in a state of panic and in the process encourage the government to introduce draconian measures that will do more harm than good for Australian citizens and protecting their freedoms. |
It's definitely energised a few fruit-bats, as we saw with the Charlie Hedbo attack and of course the Martin Place siege here. But these are definitely more lone wolves than co-ordinated terror attacks by ISIS-sympathising groups, a phenomenon that still seems mostly limited to the Middle East.
But that doesn't mean that we need to put a big question mark on whether the terror threat is being overblown. Of course it is, and the biggest evidence of this is the government's own irresponsible handling of it. What on earth is this whole citizenship issue, for instance, supposed to achieve apart from exciting extremists on both sides? Why the claim that an organisation fighting a regional war on the other side of the world presents an "existential" threat to Australia? Why all the flags every time Abbott or one of his ministers makes a statement on immigration or terror issues? I don't actually think it's possible for one to be too cynical when it comes to this government. |
The Martin Place siege is what would be characterised as a lone-wolf attack with the perpetrator having no official affiliation with any terrorist group but the Charlie Hebdo shooters were members of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) which is an off-shoot of Al-Qaeda itself and primarily located in Yemen so it was a systematic attack on a magazine that was mocking Islam which the magazine had the right to do so of course and was committed by those who had links with a terrorist groups who espoused these positions about killing those who insult the prophet.
It terms of the threat being 'overblown' can you actually provide any concrete evidence that the threat is not overblown at all? My personal feeling towards it is I think it is overblown to an extent but you sound so certain of this position whereas I'm unwilling to take that next step of faith unless evidence is presented in some shape or form that confirms this position.
Don't get me wrong I'm cynical of this whole issue on both sides but I'm not going to completely dismiss the government out of hand without some evidence supporting the idea that they're wrong about the growing terror threat in Australia rather than relying on people's opinions and interpreting them as fact.
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