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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I saw that in a HR newsletter I get via email. Apparently the ANZ "politely declined" to follow the recommendation to apologise.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| thebaldfacts wrote: | | Clearly the Government does not agree with Trigg's interpretations and has rejected them. Not surprising given the quality, or lack thereof, of her decisions. Notably, even the ALP in power ignored her recommendations.. |
A human rights commissioner performing her or his job properly should routinely earn the wrath of the sitting government, whatever its complexion. Our Government's human rights obligations are fundamentally at odds with domestic political interests. That, of course, is why the Commissioner's is an independent position. The job is to call-out abuses, not aid and abet them.
I don't expect people to understand the complexities of the intersection between domestic and international law - it's a technical area of a reasonably arcane discourse. I do, however, expect that people who don't understand it will leave it to the few of us who do to explain it to them. The few of us who do understand the issues don't typically include journalists.
I won't, of course, be responding routinely to such tripe - but I will be pleased to let you know it's tripe from time to time. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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I'm glad you are here to provide responses of this general nature from time to time. Someone has to and you are good at it.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think the ANZ thing is a bit more debatable, but whatever the case, I applaud the commission for standing up for the rights of a member of one of our society's most marginalised and disenfranchised groups. If not them, who else is going to?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thebaldfacts
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | thebaldfacts wrote: | | Clearly the Government does not agree with Trigg's interpretations and has rejected them. Not surprising given the quality, or lack thereof, of her decisions. Notably, even the ALP in power ignored her recommendations.. |
A human rights commissioner performing her or his job properly should routinely earn the wrath of the sitting government, whatever its complexion. Our Government's human rights obligations are fundamentally at odds with domestic political interests. That, of course, is why the Commissioner's is an independent position. The job is to call-out abuses, not aid and abet them.
I don't expect people to understand the complexities of the intersection between domestic and international law - it's a technical area of a reasonably arcane discourse. I do, however, expect that people who don't understand it will leave it to the few of us who do to explain it to them. The few of us who do understand the issues don't typically include journalists.
I won't, of course, be responding routinely to such tripe - but I will be pleased to let you know it's tripe from time to time. |
Quality post there Pies4shaw.
Just remind how many of Trigg's recommendations have been accepted by any of the political parties. Also remind me why Triggs delayed holding an enquiry into children in detention and hence being spared the wrath of the sitting government who put them in detention?
Maybe, just maybe Triggs is in her ivory tower and is so far divorced from the real world that she could not make a sensible decision to save herself. |
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thebaldfacts
Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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| David wrote: | | I think the ANZ thing is a bit more debatable, but whatever the case, I applaud the commission for standing up for the rights of a member of one of our society's most marginalised and disenfranchised groups. If not them, who else is going to? |
David, quit the straw man arguments please. Why do you constantly resort to this????
This is not about some marginalised and disenfranchised group, but rather about a convicted criminal who lied about his history to a prospective employer. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ regardless of the legal issues, a 1979 conviction with a long-term clean record since release from prison should surely be expunged from the record.
I agree with David that ex-cons should not be constantly plunged back into their past once they have served their sentence and shown a significant period of lawful conduct outside. It's just, but it's also good policy to rehabilitate ourselves of our prejudices.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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You need to quit repeating discredited lies, Baldy, such as the absurd one about "delaying" an enquiry which, in fact and as a matter of public record, considered and exposed irregularities in the actions of both the Rudd and Abbott governments. Not that being exposed as a recidivist lie-parrot has ever stopped you in the past.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| thebaldfacts wrote: | | David wrote: | | I think the ANZ thing is a bit more debatable, but whatever the case, I applaud the commission for standing up for the rights of a member of one of our society's most marginalised and disenfranchised groups. If not them, who else is going to? |
David, quit the straw man arguments please. Why do you constantly resort to this????
This is not about some marginalised and disenfranchised group, but rather about a convicted criminal who lied about his history to a prospective employer. |
How on earth is this a straw man argument? My exact point, more succinctly made by Mugwump, is that our society has a strong tendency to treat convicted criminals with prejudice and that overcoming that is a vital part of the rehabilitation process.
If you think that the marginalisation of criminals is justified, that's fine. I would completely disagree with you, but it's a possible argument. I'm not sure how, on the other hand, anyone could sanely argue that convicted criminals are not one of the most marginalised and disenfranchised groups in society.
You can bet your bottom dollar that politicians and the mainstream media are going to beat up on them at every opportunity, so it's really up to civil liberties and human rights organisations to lobby on their behalf. To be honest, I think this is one of the bravest and most valuable things they do. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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What does it say to a bank teller who has to share space with someone who may have shoved a gun in a colleagues face even years ago. Would you give a job in a kindergarten to someone who molested a child . You have to give industries some lenience in these matters.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| David wrote: | ]
If you think that the marginalisation of criminals is justified, that's fine. I would completely disagree with you, but it's a possible argument. I'm not sure how, on the other hand, anyone could sanely argue that convicted criminals are not one of the most marginalised and disenfranchised groups in society.
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REPEAT OFFENDERS OF CRIME
Repeat offenders of crime represent a significant problem for the justice system as well as for wider society through financial loss or property damage for victims, or through reduced feelings of safety associated with repeated criminal behaviour.
In 2008-09, excluding Western Australia, nearly three-quarters (74%) of offenders had one police proceeding against them, 15% had two police proceedings, 5.6% had three, 2.7% had four and 3.5% had five or more proceedings
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1370.0~2010~Chapter~Repeat%20offenders%20of%20crime%20(4.4.5.5)
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Another idiotic decision from Triggs | |
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | thebaldfacts wrote: |
Complaints to the Human Rights Commission are assessed against international treaties rather than Australian law.
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Well they're pretty f*ckt up rules to follow 
Payouts to those described in the article
..... really  I don't get it. |
That's the problem with this sort of disembodied rubbish, Skids - without the context, people "don't get it".
Part of what people generally "don't get" in these situations is that Australia has voluntarily accepted these international obligations. No-one compelled us to accede to any of these treaties and we can withdraw from them any time we like. Of course, successive Australian governments of all persuasions have wanted to claim that their human rights practices are compliant with international standards, so it's a bit deceptive, really, to "shoot" the person responsible for purveying the part of the message that they don't like. |
Unfortunately Skids still doesn't get it.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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I haven't followed this HRC story or pretend to understand it (read a few articles that seemed to confirm that report was delayed, but like this Muslim Q&A guy, if the Government had just STFU then nobody would've paid any attention).
I think however that some people around here would be well served by the adage "It is better to remain silent and appear a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt". |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | I haven't followed this HRC story or pretend to understand it (read a few articles that seemed to confirm that report was delayed, but like this Muslim Q&A guy, if the Government had just STFU then nobody would've paid any attention).
I think however that some people around here would be well served by the adage "It is better to remain silent and appear a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt". |
Make your mind up. Do you or don't you like Mark Twain  
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Where are the mods around here. Shouldn't this be under the previous thread: Right wing trolls posting again, sorry I meant "The disgraceful treatment of Gillian Triggs" or some such thread.
David is it possible that you can merge this with that one? Cheers.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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