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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ it's a ninteresting article, TBF. I live far away from the details of Australian life nowadays, so I don't know if it can be accepted at face value, but it makes some powerful points if true.
I am not a fan of Abbott, but the hatred of him evinced by the Left reminds me uncomfortably of the hatreds expressed by the US Republicans whenever a Democrat gets into office. As indeed, was the Australian Right's hatred of Gillard. And the Left's hatred of Howard before that.
We seem to have lost the art of civilised discourse and democratic inquiry and debate on both sides of politics, and we are much poorer for it.
I think Abbott has contributed greatly to this (though it started with Keating and Latham degraded it further), so perhaps it is only just that he should reap what he sowed. He is a populist who does not have the qualities to be Prime Minister of a serious nation (which Australia surely is). But I also accept that he got elected last time, and I am sure he will submit himself to an election in the consitutionally-ordained timeframe. The point is to disagree with his policies, rather than foam with hatred and prejudice against his government, especially where that leads an audience of educated Australians to applaud the likes of Mallah. |
A lot of assumptions there M.
1. Do you know who applauded M?
2. People do disagree with his policies - do not confuse this with the amplification by News Limited & their wilful distortion of events. News limited in Australia is much the same as the UK - like reading News of the World as one's source of information.
3. The scorn poured on the Mad Monk is self-created.
I work as does my wife with people who are the direct victims of his brutal cuts (that is barely reported on & never by News Limited). Housing cuts, NGO services to the disabled & psychiatric ill cut, cuts to women of domestic violence, defunding of environment support groups who provide a balance to well funded industry groups, hospitals cuts. This was all from the last budget where the current budget is currently predicated.
This is a nasty government & the list I've put down is just the tip of the iceberg - if you read the Murdoch press you would be utterly unaware of how rotten things are in Denmark.
Of course if The Mad Cnut Abbott screams I want Australia to be free from Terror & stands behind Australian flags and asks who side are you on blinds reason & obfuscates information.
This is a bullying government that is ridding Australians of a safety net & ridding Australians of checks & balances by such language as "cutting red tape"
This is a government of bullying, jingoism & three word slogans: no more tax, stop the boats,cutting red tape to mask the consequences of their actions - see Free trade agreements that we've signed up for as a case in point.
Mulla will be the Mad Monks Tampa moment: Lies & distortion to win government at any cost.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ it's a ninteresting article, TBF. I live far away from the details of Australian life nowadays, so I don't know if it can be accepted at face value, but it makes some powerful points if true.
I am not a fan of Abbott, but the hatred of him evinced by the Left reminds me uncomfortably of the hatreds expressed by the US Republicans whenever a Democrat gets into office. As indeed, was the Australian Right's hatred of Gillard. And the Left's hatred of Howard before that.
We seem to have lost the art of civilised discourse and democratic inquiry and debate on both sides of politics, and we are much poorer for it.
I think Abbott has contributed greatly to this (though it started with Keating and Latham degraded it further), so perhaps it is only just that he should reap what he sowed. He is a populist who does not have the qualities to be Prime Minister of a serious nation (which Australia surely is). But I also accept that he got elected last time, and I am sure he will submit himself to an election in the consitutionally-ordained timeframe. The point is to disagree with his policies, rather than foam with hatred and prejudice against his government, especially where that leads an audience of educated Australians to applaud the likes of Mallah. |
A lot of assumptions there M.
1. Do you know who applauded M?
2. People do disagree with his policies - do not confuse this with the amplification by News Limited & their wilful distortion of events. News limited in Australia is much the same as the UK - like reading News of the World as one's source of information.
3. The scorn poured on the Mad Monk is self-created.
I work as does my wife with people who are the direct victims of his brutal cuts (that is barely reported on & never by News Limited). Housing cuts, NGO services to the disabled & psychiatric ill cut, Cuts to women of domestic viol eve, defunding of environment; support groups who provide a balance to well funded industry groups, Hospitals cuts. This was all from the last budget where the current budget is currently predicated.
This is a nasty government & the list I've put down is just the tip of the iceberg - if you read the Murdoch press you would be utterly unaware of how rotten things are in Denmark.
Of course if The Mad Cnut Abbott screams I want Australia to be free from Terror & stands behind Australian flags and asks who side are you on blinds reason & obfuscates information.
This is a bullying government that is ridding Australians of a safety net & ridding Australians of checks & balances by such language as "cutting red tape"
This is a movement of bullying, jingoism & three word slogans: no more tax, stop the boats,cutting red tape to mask the consequences of their actions - see Free trade agreements that we've signed up for as a case in point.
Mulla will be the Mad Monks Tampa moment:Lies & distortion to win government at any cost. |
i cant believe he got voted in, i cant believe he still there, has he done one good thing?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ it's a ninteresting article, TBF. I live far away from the details of Australian life nowadays, so I don't know if it can be accepted at face value, but it makes some powerful points if true.
I am not a fan of Abbott, but the hatred of him evinced by the Left reminds me uncomfortably of the hatreds expressed by the US Republicans whenever a Democrat gets into office. As indeed, was the Australian Right's hatred of Gillard. And the Left's hatred of Howard before that.
We seem to have lost the art of civilised discourse and democratic inquiry and debate on both sides of politics, and we are much poorer for it.
I think Abbott has contributed greatly to this (though it started with Keating and Latham degraded it further), so perhaps it is only just that he should reap what he sowed. He is a populist who does not have the qualities to be Prime Minister of a serious nation (which Australia surely is). But I also accept that he got elected last time, and I am sure he will submit himself to an election in the consitutionally-ordained timeframe. The point is to disagree with his policies, rather than foam with hatred and prejudice against his government, especially where that leads an audience of educated Australians to applaud the likes of Mallah. |
A lot of assumptions there M.
1. Do you know who applauded M?
2. People do disagree with his policies - do not confuse this with the amplification by News Limited & their wilful distortion of events. News limited in Australia is much the same as the UK - like reading News of the World as one's source of information.
3. The scorn poured on the Mad Monk is self-created.
I work as does my wife with people who are the direct victims of his brutal cuts (that is barely reported on & never by News Limited). Housing cuts, NGO services to the disabled & psychiatric ill cut, Cuts to women of domestic viol eve, defunding of environment; support groups who provide a balance to well funded industry groups, Hospitals cuts. This was all from the last budget where the current budget is currently predicated.
This is a nasty government & the list I've put down is just the tip of the iceberg - if you read the Murdoch press you would be utterly unaware of how rotten things are in Denmark.
Of course if The Mad Cnut Abbott screams I want Australia to be free from Terror & stands behind Australian flags and asks who side are you on blinds reason & obfuscates information.
This is a bullying government that is ridding Australians of a safety net & ridding Australians of checks & balances by such language as "cutting red tape"
This is a movement of bullying, jingoism & three word slogans: no more tax, stop the boats,cutting red tape to mask the consequences of their actions - see Free trade agreements that we've signed up for as a case in point.
Mulla will be the Mad Monks Tampa moment:Lies & distortion to win government at any cost. |
i cant believe he got voted in, i cant believe he still there, has he done one good thing? |
I'm sure you like the knighthood idea. But answer your own question TP.
Then again what does Facebook & Twitter tell you?
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| How do you like living there? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | ^ it's a ninteresting article, TBF. I live far away from the details of Australian life nowadays, so I don't know if it can be accepted at face value, but it makes some powerful points if true.
I am not a fan of Abbott, but the hatred of him evinced by the Left reminds me uncomfortably of the hatreds expressed by the US Republicans whenever a Democrat gets into office. As indeed, was the Australian Right's hatred of Gillard. And the Left's hatred of Howard before that.
We seem to have lost the art of civilised discourse and democratic inquiry and debate on both sides of politics, and we are much poorer for it.
I think Abbott has contributed greatly to this (though it started with Keating and Latham degraded it further), so perhaps it is only just that he should reap what he sowed. He is a populist who does not have the qualities to be Prime Minister of a serious nation (which Australia surely is). But I also accept that he got elected last time, and I am sure he will submit himself to an election in the consitutionally-ordained timeframe. The point is to disagree with his policies, rather than foam with hatred and prejudice against his government, especially where that leads an audience of educated Australians to applaud the likes of Mallah. |
A lot of assumptions there M.
1. Do you know who applauded M?
2. People do disagree with his policies - do not confuse this with the amplification by News Limited & their wilful distortion of events. News limited in Australia is much the same as the UK - like reading News of the World as one's source of information.
3. The scorn poured on the Mad Monk is self-created.
I work as does my wife with people who are the direct victims of his brutal cuts (that is barely reported on & never by News Limited). Housing cuts, NGO services to the disabled & psychiatric ill cut, Cuts to women of domestic viol eve, defunding of environment; support groups who provide a balance to well funded industry groups, Hospitals cuts. This was all from the last budget where the current budget is currently predicated.
This is a nasty government & the list I've put down is just the tip of the iceberg - if you read the Murdoch press you would be utterly unaware of how rotten things are in Denmark.
Of course if The Mad Cnut Abbott screams I want Australia to be free from Terror & stands behind Australian flags and asks who side are you on blinds reason & obfuscates information.
This is a bullying government that is ridding Australians of a safety net & ridding Australians of checks & balances by such language as "cutting red tape"
This is a movement of bullying, jingoism & three word slogans: no more tax, stop the boats,cutting red tape to mask the consequences of their actions - see Free trade agreements that we've signed up for as a case in point.
Mulla will be the Mad Monks Tampa moment:Lies & distortion to win government at any cost. |
i cant believe he got voted in, i cant believe he still there, has he done one good thing? |
I'm sure you like the knighthood idea. But answer your own question TP.
Then again what does Facebook & Twitter tell you? |
Only twits tweet
Facebook today tells me the USA are far more progressive than us, a gorilla protected a 5 year old boy, someone's poor dog got eaten by a croc, a crazy guy made friends with a white pointer, and there is still far too many puppy farms out there
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ Your newsfeed is much more entertaining than mine. 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Mugwump wrote: | | I live far away from the details of Australian life nowadays |
That seems plain enough from the comments you provide subsequently. You don't seem to have grasped the very unusual nature of the Abbott government (which is perfectly understandable if you are far away, please don't take that as a criticism).
| Mugwump wrote: | | I am not a fan of Abbott, but the hatred of him evinced by the Left reminds me uncomfortably of the hatreds expressed by the US Republicans whenever a Democrat gets into office. |
First, "hatred" is not really the term to use here. It looks rather like hatred from a distance, and there is certainly a measure of hatred to be found in it, but the response to Abbott it is overwhelmingly fear, with a strong admixture of disgust and loathing. Fear and hatred look quite similar from a distance, but they are very, very different.
A much closer fit to the way Abbott is regarded by mainstream Australia is Whitlam. Whitlam came to power explicitly promising to sweep away the dead wood of the 1950s we were still mired in (yes, even as late as 1972) and set about with characteristic energy and determination to transform Australia into a modern, civilised country with universal access to the basics of affordable health care and tertiary education regardless of your birth circumstances, with decent, humane divorce laws, with (at least some) respect for Aboriginal people, and so on.
People regarded the Whitlam government as a "this-changes-everything" government, and it was just that. Indeed, this was what Whitlam promised before the election and what Australians voted overwhelmingly for in 1972. But there were many among us who feared those changes - cast-iron conservatives most of them - and many more who, over time, saw the mistakes and the mismanagement of this inexperienced, idealistic, and perhaps over-ambitious new government and joined in the chorus of opposition. If you cast your mind back to 1975, you will remember that the hysteria of the Whitlam-fear was such that even quite decent and generally sensible people applauded the filthiest of dirty tactics on the part of the Liberal opposition, and when these hitherto unthinkable tactics finally brought on an election, deserted Whitlam and voted en masse for Fraser.
Abbott is very similar in many ways. He too leads a "this-changes-everything" government which is well on the way to transforming Australia into a very different place. He too was elected by a clear majority. He too leads a government as notable for its scandals, mistakes and mismanagement as it is for its radical change-the-country agenda.
But there is a difference, a massive difference. Whitlam set out his list of major changes well before the election and campaigned on that list, asked the men and women of Australia to vote him in on the strength of it, which they did. The moment he took office he set about implementing all those changes. He did, in short, exactly what he had promised he would do.
Abbott, in stark contrast, did not seek a mandate for his radical this-changes-everything agenda. He kept it secret from the voters. He explicitly promised not to do most of the things which he has done. In response to widely held concerns that, once in office, he would institute a program of savage cuts and wind back the progress of the last half-century, he explicitly promised that none of that would happen:
| Tony Abbott wrote: | | "No cuts to education, no cuts to health, no change to pensions, no change to the GST and no cuts to the ABC or SBS." |
He and his (then) shadow minsters promised in writing to "ensure the continuation of the current arrangements of university funding" and explicitly ruled out any changes to "the current funding and pricing arrangements". They pledged to maintain the bipartisan Renewable Energy Target, and above all, Abbott pledged that he would be a responsible, steady-as-she-goes Prime Minister:
| Tony Abbott wrote: | | We are going to be a government of no surprises and no excuses; a government which keeps its commitments and a government which is straight and candid with the Australian people and that's what we intend to do. |
He has, of course, broken every single one of those oft-repeated promises bar the GST increase, and that last one has by no means been ruled out. Worse, he and his ministers have done so with a spectacular disregard for conventions, fairness, and even in some cases the law itself. They have happily, even gleefully, implemented far-reaching damage to the rule of law and the primacy of basic democratic principles such as the right to be tried before a properly constituted court with public evidence (instead, you may be condemned by a politician at the stroke of a minister's pen with no right of appeal). Worse, these draconian powers can now be exercised in secret, with heavy penalties for anyone who even reports them. Further, the Abbott government, from the very day it took office, has ruthlessly pursued any number of perfectly decent people and crucified them mererly for doiing their jobs. The public villification of an honest and dedicated Human Rights Commissioner merely because she had the temerity to report violations as she is required to do by law is the most prominent recent example; less well publicised is the long list of vindictive public service and independant authority sackings which started the very day Abbott took office an which has no precedent in this or any other democratic nation. Abbott rules by fear: public servants and managers of independant statuatory authorities (such as the ABC, the Bureau of Meterology, and many others) live in fear for their careers and their families' livelihoods. Only the brave still speak out or risk any action which might make then the next in line for persecution.
Fear, Mugwamp. It's not hate, it's fear. And great sadness for the Australia that might have been. And disgust for his duplicity and shameless lies.
Similar feelings attended Whitlam's demise. (Sans the disgust - whatever his other faults, Whitlam was an honest man by nature and seldom lied.) People feared the massive changes of the Whitlam government just as they fear the consequences of Abbott's rule today. That is by far the closest comparison you can make - but note the key difference: Whitlam was feared because of what he promised he would do, was voted in to do, and did. Abbott is feared because of what he promised he would not do, was not voted in to do, and did anyway, and even more feared for what else he might do next week or next year.
Nobody voted for this. Nobody expected this. It's not hate, it's fear.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Say what you like about the US but they hold the notion of free speech and a free press in higher regard than what we seemingly do.
Doubt a President would get away using bullying tactics on a national broadcaster without some immediate and vocal backlash by people with power and influence on Capitol Hill.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| what you like about the US but they hold the notion of free speech and a free press in higher regard than what we do |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Doubt a President would get away using bullying tactics on a national broadcaster without some immediate and vocal backlash by people with power and influence on Capitol Hill. |
Quite so.
(Assuming they had a national broadcaster, of course.)
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Tannin wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | Doubt a President would get away using bullying tactics on a national broadcaster without some immediate and vocal backlash by people with power and influence on Capitol Hill. |
Quite so.
(Assuming they had a national broadcaster, of course.) |
PBS is probably there closest equivalent.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Quite so. Equally, in our back yard, a medium-sized beetle is probably our closest equivalent to a pet elephant. 
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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No apologies from me for despising Abbott for a range of economic and moral reasons. For a start, only a moral lowlife of the worst sort would humiliate and demonise boat people to win an election. That's automatic exclusion right there for me; and that's the tip of the iceberg. AFAIK I don't associate with one human being who has ever done anything like that to powerless people; it's in the same class as pedophilia to me. In fact, it would also take a similar degree of narcissistic sociopathy to justify doing something like that to vulnerable others.
The man's blocking of human progress on the environment is also horrific, from scuttling treaties and failing to protect forests and natural wonders, to being in the pockets of the corrupt, dirty fossil fuels industry. Not a word on species loss, the silent human disgrace, though admittedly he's not alone on that one, so I can't single him out for it.
Just being so wantonly amoral as to sit by and watch the US unleash hell in the Middle East was bad enough, but this creep vocally cheered it on. How cowardly can you be to hide behind big brother and watch violent, corrupt chaos like that unleashed on other humans? You have to shudder at the psychiatry that must take.
Then there's his downward pressure on already declining real wages and education, and trashing of high-paying future careers. You can't throw hail Mary's at the future; the only certainty in economics is the need to compete: So where the $%$k is the focused plan to help give folks an edge? Where are the new science and technology precincts, German-style industry apprenticeships and new technology centres? The bloke is parasiting off the nation's mineral wealth while competitors go from strength to strength in the intellectual and technical capability stakes. That's just shocking irresponsibility.
I guess you can't blame someone for not knowing what they don't know and being indoctrinated into tribal thought, and then somehow getting elected for it. Certainly, no sane investor or CEO anywhere would give someone so inexperienced in the world, with such a poor resume and notoriety for embarrassing public brain fades, a senior position in a corporation. But people voted for him, so that aspect isn't actually his fault. When you're that narcissistic questions of your own capability just wouldn't come into it.
I can overlook a lot of things as systemic and nothing to do with him personally, but I certainly can't overlook his abuse of boat people, his refusal to counsel the US on the sheer bloodthirsty madness of Iraq (or worse; his active support of it), and the environmental assets and human progress he has traded for dirty money, publicity and favours from the fossil fuels industry. Those things are lower than seagull vomit in my estimation.
As I say, I don't willingly associate with one person who would knowingly do such things to others. I'm not sure how else one is supposed to view such behaviour except as to despise it. In fact, if others in my orbit behaved like that I would be trying to get them to treatment, but it's hard even for someone with my psychology-based world view to feel sorry for the bloke because he's a nutter who has so much impact on the lives of others.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| swoop42 wrote: | | Doubt a President would get away using bullying tactics on a national broadcaster without some immediate and vocal backlash by people with power and influence on Capitol Hill. |
Romney actually went to the last election promising to end government funding to PBS altogether. If the election had been decided on that issue alone, I'm not sure he would have lost. Americans are generally pretty suspicious of public-funded anything.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Tannin wrote: |
Nobody voted for this. Nobody expected this. It's not hate, it's fear. |
^ the post above (not just the quote, which summarises) was excellent read, Tannin, thanks, which aided my understanding. I'm not trying to be an apologist for Abbott and when you live abroad it is impossible to sense the relative radicalism of a government as experienced. I do remember the venomous fervour that was awoken by the Whitlam government, though. In Britain the Thatcher government(s) were probably teh closest analogue (though they make the changes of Whitlam and Abbott seem very tame, I think).
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Two more flags before I die! |
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