Homeless Issue
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Post subject: Homeless Issue |  |
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The State has closed many inner city boarding houses. The value of property is forcing many property owners to sell boarding houses to developers and you just wait till Gatwick house disappears. We can add that the State under Kennnet closed nearly all mental support facilities yet all these factors are ignored because the tennis is on and we have overseas visitors and they are confronted with people begging. Obviously many people don't travel, this is an issue in every major city I have visited around the globe.
People say lock them up in jail; well many of the homeless would welcome that, 3 meals a day with medical and dental cover. The oppositions simplistic solution with moving them on and locking them up will not address the issue it just moves the issue so its out of sight. Apparently Dan Andrews is at fault because these people are homeless.
With media in a frenzy about the homeless on our streets what can be done? Thoughts? |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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It's a disgrace!
And we send billions of dollars overseas and billions more taking in fake refugees.
Both sides of politics are crap, we need a change.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Complex issue.
Regarding the current mobs building squats on the footpath, things I've read say they've refused offers of help. On the news tonight the Salvos have offered temporary accommodation to this mob but they apparently refused as they want permanent accommodation. good luck with that.
I've been to a couple of different cities on the west coast of the USA where homelessness is a bigger problem than here and not seen anything like these. I don't know if it's a law but they only ever seem to have up to 3 together sleeping on the footpath and nothing but a bag or two with them.
here's one bloke doing something out of his own kick. http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4396661/family-stumps-up-4m-for-unique-plan-to-tackle-homelessness/
Collingwood also runs a program with the salvo's http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2014-03-15/introducing-the-magpie-nest-housing-project
And the houses compulsorily acquired for the abandoned east west link have been turned over to the Salvos by the state government for crisis accommodation
There are services. http://www.melbourne.homeless.org.au/
Then there's the fakes.
| Quote: | HALF of people sleeping on Melbourne�s streets are not genuinely homeless, according to one of the peak charities.
Salvation Army Major Brendan Nottle said as many as 50 per cent of those on the street either had accommodation � but begged to fuel their drug habits � or were international tourists. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-homeless-half-of-people-sleeping-on-streets-not-genuine-homeless-says-salvation-army/news-story/b1476840569ae9c221ce20446ef71e36
My view is there's a lot of reasons why people become homeless. Giving them a house won't fix those issues, and no one should just be given a permanent house.
temporary accommodation, education and counselling is my response.
Get em off the street into temporary accommodation, provide education and counselling to assist them in getting rid of their drug/alcohol habits where applicable, assist them in becoming employable where possible and practical. Once they can earn money and the underlying issues are resolved, the idea is they can move on to become self sufficient
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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I noticed this when I was last in Melbourne a few months ago. No doubt it has many causes - genuine economic need amid insane housing prices ; mental illness (and its best friend drug addiction) ; the fact that this has become culturally acceptable and tolerable as we have lost our sense of shame. What I know from my time in Europe is that if you tolerate and then accept it, it will come to seem a simple fact of life, and then a choice for some. We had a lot of it in London in the 1980s (the cardboard city, etc) and once the government adopted a zero tolerance policy toward it, it vanished - to the betterment of everyone in the city including the former occupants.
It is something that no government should tolerate, and a combination of simple, safe, spartan accommodation and basic food, together with sanctions for not using it, is probably required. The bleeding hearts would hate that type of practical compassion, presumably.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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It will get worse with Centerlink Trying to get Debt that is not there and Lessening People's Pensions
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I am Da Man |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
it seems the Police are powerless unless a crime is comitted.
The last state government put in some "move them on" legislation aimed at protesters which would have enabled the Police to shut these shanty's down. The legislation was repealed by Dandrews so they're screwed
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
it seems the Police are powerless unless a crime is comitted.
The last state government put in some "move them on" legislation aimed at protesters which would have enabled the Police to shut these shanty's down. The legislation was repealed by Dandrews so they're screwed |
Now there is a surprise ! Liberals (in the US sense) making civic life worse by appeasing the "look at my conscience" brigade....
Still, moving them on without a purposeful place to move them to is not really a solution. Culprit's post suggests that these facilities have been removed. I don't know if that is true, and even if it is true, I don't know whether the facilities in place back then would have been adequate to deal with today's problems. These are symptoms of a society that has chosen the wrong future : it has failed to tackle drugs, undermined legitimate authority in schools and the law, damaged the great social welfare unit called the family, unwoven the fabric of social solidarity through mass immigration, accepted a rapidly rising population without building homes for it, and lost its sense of social shame.
It's now finding out that it cannot afford the band-aids, despite record social spending.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Homeless Issue | |
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| Culprit wrote: | The State has closed many inner city boarding houses. The value of property is forcing many property owners to sell boarding houses to developers and you just wait till Gatwick house disappears. We can add that the State under Kennnet closed nearly all mental support facilities yet all these factors are ignored because the tennis is on and we have overseas visitors and they are confronted with people begging. Obviously many people don't travel, this is an issue in every major city I have visited around the globe.
People say lock them up in jail; well many of the homeless would welcome that, 3 meals a day with medical and dental cover. The oppositions simplistic solution with moving them on and locking them up will not address the issue it just moves the issue so its out of sight. Apparently Dan Andrews is at fault because these people are homeless.
With media in a frenzy about the homeless on our streets what can be done? Thoughts? |
The issue is not Kennett with bipartisan support closing institutions for the mentally ill and for the intellectually disabled. I know because I closed an institution and was involved in policy in the same areas including homelessness back in the early 1990's.
The issue is purely & simply that Governments of all persuasions but far worse under the Libs and accepted willingly by the ALP is simply the cuts to Public housing directly & indirectly by cuts to Local government when they used to be public housing service providers too.
As you correctly noted a lot of accommodation places in & around the CBD & especially St Kilda etc have closed.
In terms of ID, the change is also made worse by a number of other factors. Kew Cottages was always meant to be open for about 50 statewide beds. Government were too greedy & kicked the ID folk out & sold it to property developers for expensive property development. There are policy issues too complex to go in to detail here about how services were provided compared to how the are now: In short it's where the social work left meets the economic rationalist (libertarian) right. I'm no supporter of social workers when it comes to ID policy but that's another issue.
The issue is not mental illness or ID but greed & government cuts pure and simple. Any other reason such as some of those noted above are with all due respect, piss & wind.
Follow the money.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Post subject: Re: Homeless Issue | |
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| watt price tully wrote: | Any other reason such as some of those noted above are with all due respect, piss & wind.
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Charming ..... Unlike, of course, the endless demand for more taxation, more spending, more deficit budgeting and more money from public sector workers and their ultra-conservative unions, and the ancillary businesses that support them. That's pure altruistic air and pure water, of course.
Many public sector workers work very hard, and they are often at the sharpest edges of a social dysfunction which increases year on year as we pursue failing policies. We owe it to them to re-think the root causes of the social breakdown which makes this so.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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The "Moving on Law" is a conservative push to move it under the carpet. Out of sight out of mind. At least yesterday we finally had one of the head honcho's at Vic Pol state, "It's not illegal to be homeless". As for other laws like drug using they will enforce. Personally I would rather the police concentrate on murder cases, violent matters, theft, aggravated burglaries and hell terrorism more than the homeless smoking a bong.
As I stated, Gatwick House is the next major boarding house that will close and it's basically closing as the owners want the money as that property is worth big dollars. The solution isn't that easy as one person I listened to said it's his choice as he doesn't have to worry about finding rent money, paying utility bills out of his unemployment benefits. He can use that money for food, alcohol and drugs. Some people want to be helped and some don't. I am involved in helping ex Defence personnel who are homeless. Most suffer from PTSD and struggle with the normality of life after service. Sleeping on the street is great compared to what they have been through. The discussion has to happen and in saying that I am more annoyed at the media saying it's a blight on our city whilst a major sporting event is on. Seriously, so if there was no major event on it would be OK? |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | Complex issue.
Regarding the current mobs building squats on the footpath, things I've read say they've refused offers of help. On the news tonight the Salvos have offered temporary accommodation to this mob but they apparently refused as they want permanent accommodation. good luck with that.
I've been to a couple of different cities on the west coast of the USA where homelessness is a bigger problem than here and not seen anything like these. I don't know if it's a law but they only ever seem to have up to 3 together sleeping on the footpath and nothing but a bag or two with them.
here's one bloke doing something out of his own kick. http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4396661/family-stumps-up-4m-for-unique-plan-to-tackle-homelessness/
Collingwood also runs a program with the salvo's http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/news/2014-03-15/introducing-the-magpie-nest-housing-project
And the houses compulsorily acquired for the abandoned east west link have been turned over to the Salvos by the state government for crisis accommodation
There are services. http://www.melbourne.homeless.org.au/
Then there's the fakes.
| Quote: | HALF of people sleeping on Melbourne�s streets are not genuinely homeless, according to one of the peak charities.
Salvation Army Major Brendan Nottle said as many as 50 per cent of those on the street either had accommodation � but begged to fuel their drug habits � or were international tourists. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-homeless-half-of-people-sleeping-on-streets-not-genuine-homeless-says-salvation-army/news-story/b1476840569ae9c221ce20446ef71e36
My view is there's a lot of reasons why people become homeless. Giving them a house won't fix those issues, and no one should just be given a permanent house.
temporary accommodation, education and counselling is my response.
Get em off the street into temporary accommodation, provide education and counselling to assist them in getting rid of their drug/alcohol habits where applicable, assist them in becoming employable where possible and practical. Once they can earn money and the underlying issues are resolved, the idea is they can move on to become self sufficient |
Great post.
As usual it's a few cheats ruining it for the genuine needy. There seemed to be a lot of young things, and yes they looked like back packers. More of the generation that expects life on a platter? The police should have the power to talk to them one on one and find out where they are from, see if they are genuine, and if they have been offered temporary accomodation, and knocked it back, then they should be able to move them on.
Didn't I read somewhere that they were emptying a boys remand place near the city, and sending them to a jail due to constant rioting? Couldn't they use that facility for emergency housing instead?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | It will get worse with Centerlink Trying to get Debt that is not there and Lessening People's Pensions |
If we cut foreign aid in half, the government could increase pensions by $50 a fortnight for singles and $76 a fortnight for couples.
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | More of the generation that expects life on a platter? |
Each to their own, but I'm not sure sleeping on a public footpath qualifies as "life on a platter". Rather than focusing on the undeserving homeless (!?) perhaps we should be focusing on why so many people feel they have no other option. And no, the answer isn't cutting our measly foreign aid. Corporate tax and negative gearing reform might be a better start if we're really so hard up for cash.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Homeless Issue | |
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| Mugwump wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | Any other reason such as some of those noted above are with all due respect, piss & wind.
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Charming ..... Unlike, of course, the endless demand for more taxation, more spending, more deficit budgeting and more money from public sector workers and their ultra-conservative unions, and the ancillary businesses that support them. That's pure altruistic air and pure water, of course.
Many public sector workers work very hard, and they are often at the sharpest edges of a social dysfunction which increases year on year as we pursue failing policies. We owe it to them to re-think the root causes of the social breakdown which makes this so. |
Allow me to introduce myself.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Culprit wrote: | The "Moving on Law" is a conservative push to move it under the carpet. Out of sight out of mind. At least yesterday we finally had one of the head honcho's at Vic Pol state, "It's not illegal to be homeless". As for other laws like drug using they will enforce. Personally I would rather the police concentrate on murder cases, violent matters, theft, aggravated burglaries and hell terrorism more than the homeless smoking a bong.
As I stated, Gatwick House is the next major boarding house that will close and it's basically closing as the owners want the money as that property is worth big dollars. The solution isn't that easy as one person I listened to said it's his choice as he doesn't have to worry about finding rent money, paying utility bills out of his unemployment benefits. He can use that money for food, alcohol and drugs. Some people want to be helped and some don't. I am involved in helping ex Defence personnel who are homeless. Most suffer from PTSD and struggle with the normality of life after service. Sleeping on the street is great compared to what they have been through. The discussion has to happen and in saying that I am more annoyed at the media saying it's a blight on our city whilst a major sporting event is on. Seriously, so if there was no major event on it would be OK? |
Correct weight & nail hit head.
Similar to vagrancy laws in ? 18th century England. I've got to find the link to a paper used when I was studying post grad Criminology back in  1990. A great year BTW.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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