US Election 2016
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests Registered Users: None |
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
Pies4shaw wrote: | David wrote: | Apart from your clueless conflation of radical anarchists, Clinton supporters and tiresome 'Generation Y' clichs, your definition is insightful in that you place yourself in opposition to people who "haven't learned that real life is about winning or losing". I can think of no better encapsulation of the delusions of Trump supporters. Might I posit that 'winners' and 'losers' all end up six feet under, and that there's a little more to life than whether you got to be the top chook in the hen house?
Another irony is that 'snowflake' is a term aimed at people who trumpet their individualism precisely the kind of extreme individualism that Trump and those like him have worked so hard to promote. |
And, paradoxically, of course, the people who are said to have voted Trump into the White House are supposed to be the downtrodden, dispossessed, average, "white", "losers" in "middle America" who have "had enough". The rhetoric really is unable to sustain its own fictional edifice. |
Quite so. _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | Yes, he seems to have been able to follow the script in that instance.
Has the inauguration started? Or, as Faust said to Mephistopheles, are we there yet? |
Bloody hell that was good David _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
Post subject: | |
|
watt price tully wrote: | [quote="Pies4shaw"][quote="David"]Apart from your clueless conflation of radical anarchists, Clinton supporters and tiresome 'Generation Y' clichs, your definition is insightful in that you place yourself in opposition to people who "haven't learned that real life is about winning or losing". I can think of no better encapsulation of the delusions of Trump supporters. Might I posit that 'winners' and 'losers' all end up six feet under, and that there's a little more to life than whether you got to be the top chook in the hen house?
Another irony is that 'snowflake' is a term aimed at people who trumpet their individualism precisely the kind of extreme individualism that Trump and those like him have worked so hard to promote.[/quote]
And, paradoxically, of course, the people who are said to have voted Trump into the White House are supposed to be the downtrodden, dispossessed, average, "white", "losers" in "middle America" who have "had enough". The rhetoric really is unable to sustain its own fictional edifice.[/quote]
Quite so. | Perhaps your thoughts are just electrical impulses. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
Not really telling me anything I didn't know, but worth posting anyway the US cult of personality is such that it often does seem as if a lot of people really do believe that the presidency is the only significant seat of power within the US government. Nonetheless, Trump and his administration do have power to do a lot of damage at home and abroad (and congress is run by extremists anyway, if not necessarily pro-Trump extremists), so I'm not exactly wearing rose-coloured glasses right now.
One quibble with the article:
Quote: | The liberal Left will be revitalised
The dark night of fascism that George W. Bush was supposed to presage actually led to the rebirth of popular Democratic politics evidenced in the rise of Obama and a popular culture receptive to the likes of documentary film-maker Michael Moore. Trump may well have a similar effect. If Trump is as odious as Meryl Streep and other progressives claim, he will move millions back into their camp. |
Sorry, no. This is a leftist fantasy that has little basis in reality if anything, left-wing 'revitalisation' seems to occur in times of progress and stability, not in the midst of authoritarian right-wing regimes. There may well be a backlash that sees Trump turfed from office, but as likely as not it'll be from the centre people will be so relieved to be rid of him that they'll take anything half-decent. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
^
yeah, dunno. look at the birth of the Alt right to counter the SJW's.
newtons third law in application _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
That's just a narrative about the alt-right's birth and not one I necessarily agree with. I think it's just as likely that it emerged as an offshoot of the radical rhetoric of the Tea Party and other radical anti-Obama forces Obama, let's not forget, being about as moderate as it gets. Some of it was a direct response to feminism etc., but imho it predates the emergence of identitarianism (AKA the 'SJWs').
Certainly, I've always believed that extreme forces feed off each other, but that's not quite the same thing. You may get a few more radical left-wing anarchists throwing bricks through shop windows now, but that's more likely to help Trump than it is any coherent left-liberal movement. I suspect the opposition to Trump will spread too far across the political spectrum for the left to benefit from this. It's all about supply and demand. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
Post subject: | |
|
Just curious what exactly did Obama actually achieve in his 8 years apart from being a good orator David?
That is a serious question - I don't give a fats rats about the Septics so pay little attention and so maybe I missed his achievements? _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
I'm no expert on US domestic policy either, but my impression is also precious little with a few exceptions. Firstly, the Affordable Care Act, which was a hugely important piece of legislation and could have laid the groundwork for a real shift in the way public health is treated in the US (unfortunately, it looks likely that Trump and the Republican congress will do their best to tear it to pieces). The other two acts of significance were the treaty with Iran (another that might be headed for the shredder) and the thawing of relations with Cuba, both big steps forward for world peace and security. His response to the GFC saved a great many Americans from the scourge of austerity politics and stopped the country as a whole from falling into a much deeper economic hole. These, at least, are significant achievements; but they are not enough on their own to make him the great reformer he wanted to be.
At the end of the day, he has a pretty good excuse: the last six of his eight years in office were spent wrestling with an absolutely and unbendingly obstructionist congress think Malcolm Fraser's Liberal opposition during the Whitlam years multiplied by 10. Almost everything that he put up, they knocked down; not because of different opinions on policy but because a great deal of the Tea Party base were treating Obama like the antichrist, and any negotiation would be seen as an act of weakness. That situation pretty much ensured that he had one arm tied behind his back for most of his time in office, and as a result could often only get symbolic stuff through.
I'm sure I'm overlooking a lot of good, low-profile bread-and-butter social, economic and/or climate policy that he passed over his two terms. But for me, Obama's greatest achievement was what he didn't do: for eight years, America managed not to start any destructive wars (its ill-advised meddling in Libya notwithstanding), increase the likelihood of global conflict or heap further misery upon its own disadvantaged citizens. For all his flaws and for all the roadblocks in his way, he kept things rolling along fairly functionally. By the time 2020 rolls around, I think a lot of people will be looking back on the Obama presidency with well-placed nostalgia. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
|
Post subject: | |
|
think positive wrote: | When I saw the rioting my first thought was that shopping strip won't look much different! Quite shocking how beaten up and horrible parts of DC are less than a mile for two from the White House.
And yes I agree, it's bizarre, can't quite get my head around it. His missus scrubbed up well, classy. Nice. |
<snip please try to steer clear of potentially libellous insults> usually do.
She's thick as a brick. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | think positive wrote: | When I saw the rioting my first thought was that shopping strip won't look much different! Quite shocking how beaten up and horrible parts of DC are less than a mile for two from the White House.
And yes I agree, it's bizarre, can't quite get my head around it. His missus scrubbed up well, classy. Nice. |
<snip please try to steer clear of potentially libellous insults> usually do.
She's thick as a brick. |
A very well paid brick _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | She's thick as a brick. |
And you know this as fact how exactly? _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | think positive wrote: | When I saw the rioting my first thought was that shopping strip won't look much different! Quite shocking how beaten up and horrible parts of DC are less than a mile for two from the White House.
And yes I agree, it's bizarre, can't quite get my head around it. His missus scrubbed up well, classy. Nice. |
<snip please try to steer clear of potentially libellous insults> usually do.
She's thick as a brick. |
Apparently it's ok to call someone thick as a brick, but not the snipped thing. I suppose that is right, but it is curious. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | I'm no expert on US domestic policy either, but my impression is also precious little with a few exceptions. Firstly, the Affordable Care Act, which was a hugely important piece of legislation and could have laid the groundwork for a real shift in the way public health is treated in the US (unfortunately, it looks likely that Trump and the Republican congress will do their best to tear it to pieces). The other two acts of significance were the treaty with Iran (another that might be headed for the shredder) and the thawing of relations with Cuba, both big steps forward for world peace and security. His response to the GFC saved a great many Americans from the scourge of austerity politics and stopped the country as a whole from falling into a much deeper economic hole. These, at least, are significant achievements; but they are not enough on their own to make him the great reformer he wanted to be.
At the end of the day, he has a pretty good excuse: the last six of his eight years in office were spent wrestling with an absolutely and unbendingly obstructionist congress think Malcolm Fraser's Liberal opposition during the Whitlam years multiplied by 10. Almost everything that he put up, they knocked down; not because of different opinions on policy but because a great deal of the Tea Party base were treating Obama like the antichrist, and any negotiation would be seen as an act of weakness. That situation pretty much ensured that he had one arm tied behind his back for most of his time in office, and as a result could often only get symbolic stuff through.
I'm sure I'm overlooking a lot of good, low-profile bread-and-butter social, economic and/or climate policy that he passed over his two terms. But for me, Obama's greatest achievement was what he didn't do: for eight years, America managed not to start any destructive wars (its ill-advised meddling in Libya notwithstanding), increase the likelihood of global conflict or heap further misery upon its own disadvantaged citizens. For all his flaws and for all the roadblocks in his way, he kept things rolling along fairly functionally. By the time 2020 rolls around, I think a lot of people will be looking back on the Obama presidency with well-placed nostalgia. |
This seems a reasonable piece to me ?
http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/the-harsh-truth-about-barack-obama-he-failed/news-story/64ab142c2b07f0bfd35cd3de6cff764dL _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
Post subject: | |
|
Nearly so. All things that he put up they knocked down; not because of different opinions on policy but because of the Tea Party base were treating Obama like the antichrist and a negotiation would be seen as an act of weakness ? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
|