US Election 2016
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
 |
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
|
CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
A few years back many staunch advocates for spending hundreds of billions of dollars on reducing carbon dioxide emissions in order to combat man-made global warming used a pretty consistent argument to proffer their case. It took the emotion out and instead based it on risk management.
The argument was that if we did spend this money and AGW turned out to not be as catastrophic as the models predict, then all we've lost is the money and we have 'cleaner' industry for it. BUT, if we didn't spend the money and AGW turns Earth into a fiery hell-hole, then we've lost EVERYHTING.
It made reasonable sense to the most ardent anti-AGW campaigner and became at least a platform by which to mount a conversation.
Fast forward about 6 years and a similar argument can be used for the abolition of Muslim immigration into civilised, progressive western cultures.
If countries such as continental Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada, USA, much of South America and the British Isles ceased the intake of Muslims and the threat of Islam isn't as big as the Koran insists it should be, then our communities in effect, will have lost essentially nothing.
BUT, if we keep Muslim immigration rolling and allow 'refugees' from Muslim countries into our lands and they are indeed on jihad to effectively convert or kill 'unbelievers' and implement sharia law as dictated in the Koran, then we have lost EVERYHTING. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I'm pretty sure there's more to climate science (and the international political acceptance of it) than a Pascal's Wager, CP.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
| Quote: | Pascal's Wager is an argument in apologetic philosophy devised by the seventeenth century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623–62).
It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or that he does not. Based on the assumption that the stakes are infinite if God exists and that there is at least a small probability that God in fact exists, Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas they stand to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell). |
Rather fittingly, this is the biggest problem with Pascal's reasoning, and the reason why even Christians are reluctant to invoke it nowadays: the world is not made of such absurd and reductive binaries. Not in climate science, not in metaphysics and certainly not in Muslim immigration.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | I'm pretty sure there's more to climate science (and the international political acceptance of it) than a Pascal's Wager, CP.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager
| Quote: | Pascal's Wager is an argument in apologetic philosophy devised by the seventeenth century French philosopher, mathematician and physicist Blaise Pascal (1623–62).
It posits that humans all bet with their lives either that God exists or that he does not. Based on the assumption that the stakes are infinite if God exists and that there is at least a small probability that God in fact exists, Pascal argues that a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc.), whereas they stand to receive infinite gains (as represented by eternity in Heaven) and avoid infinite losses (eternity in Hell). |
Rather fittingly, this is the biggest problem with Pascal's reasoning, and the reason why even Christians are reluctant to invoke it nowadays: the world is not made of such absurd and reductive binaries. Not in climate science, not in metaphysics and certainly not in Muslim immigration. |
And yet, the usual argument of the left is in such "binaries" - ie, you either believe in man-made global warming or you're a "denier" and immoral. Either you believe in welcoming all Muslims or you're evil and immoral.
Absolutism is the domain of the left and they hate it when it's thrown back at them like Trump has done. This is because the left only deal in absolutes and if it doesn't fit their framework, it's wrong. It's evil. It's absurd.
You can't have it both ways (and that's a general 'you', not you specifically as you often try to expand your thought around an argument). |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| CP wrote: | | This is because the left only deal in absolutes |
Oh the irony. 
Like anything else, 'the left' is an incredibly diverse grouping that contains everyone from mouth-breathing ideologues to some of the human race's greatest and most nuanced thinkers. Personally, I generally avoid such descriptors as 'evil' or 'immoral' – what matters to me is not the 'morality' of the individual but the quality of the ideas being expressed.
Personally, I do believe some ideas are absurd to the point where arguing them is a waste of time, and climate science scepticism may well be one of them. I also think that seeing Muslim immigration to the West as an invasion or worrying that we're all going to be subject to Sharia Law is irrational and harmful. But I agree with you that it is as wrong to condemn all xenophobes or climate change sceptics as evil or immoral as it is to condemn Muslims in the same way. We are all susceptible to irrational belief patterns in one way or another, but that doesn't mean that we don't deserve to be treated with dignity. Trump's rhetoric on Muslims does not treat them with dignity.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I'm liking Trump more everyday. He says what most people think, yet are to scared to say it for fear of being labled a racist.
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I'd contest 'most', but I do think that he and his supporters ae at least somewhat correct when they say that political correctness - people being afraid of saying what they really think - is a reason for his success. In that sense, having him around could be a force for good, perversely; because it's one thing to claim a silent majority and another to put your odious beliefs on public display, present them to the people and endure a humiliating defeat (which is what will happen if the Republican Party are foolish enough to give him their nomination).
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Forget about Trump, he's an inflated moron who'll appeal to the luny right wing, gun toten', bible bashing, red neck rump of the Republican party. He's evidence that GOP can't win and won't win an election any time soon.
He's kind of what we'd get if we rolled Corey Bernadi, Eric Abetz, Concetta Fierravanti-Wells, Peter Dutton, The Parrot, Murdoch and Bolt, into one glorious, confused and fearful Liberal.
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
By the way, any mild sympathies I had for Rand Paul are stone dead after his response to the latest Trump brain spasm. I'm hoping Rubio or Bush get the Republican nomination now (Kasich is ok too, but he's no chance). As for Cruz, he would have to be my least favourite candidate after Trump - a thoroughly nasty piece of work.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | By the way, any mild sympathies I had for Rand Paul are stone dead after his response to the latest Trump brain spasm. I'm hoping Rubio or Bush get the Republican nomination now (Kasich is ok too, but he's no chance). As for Cruz, he would have to be my least favourite candidate after Trump - a thoroughly nasty piece of work. |
Rubio is a chance, Bush is dead in the water (just doesn't want to drop out before the lesser lights) and Kasich was never in the picture. Carson has since imploded and his support is going to Cruz and Trump. Unless Trump comes out as a gay communist I'd say he's got it firmly in hand.
Rubio and Cruz are both in a decent position as either is more likely to beat Clinton, depends how support falls once candidates start dropping, but both of them are staying quiet on Trump because everyone who's tried to take him out (Bush, Rand and Carson) have all imploded after trying. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
He's at something like 4% and now struggling to get donors. When you're a Bush and people don't want to throw money at you, it's over. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
