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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | Roos is a very good coach.
The Dees are definitely improving.
But really, who cares? |
you should care if you are interested in having an even competition with 18 financially viable teams.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Stupied wrote: | | Golden Gordon wrote: | | themonk wrote: | | Darkstranger wrote: | | Clearly Buckley is > than Roos, clearly, clearly he is. |
Roos is a premiership coach, let's call it at the end of their careers. |
The issue is can Roos coach for this era? I say the evidence is clearly NO. Can anyone really say Melbourne has improved under Roos? Anyone who watches AFL360 knows that Roos is a waffler, pure and simple. He says a lot of exactly nothing. From what I have seen of Bucks, everything he says is relevant, especially when he owns Robbo as some people have said. Last Monday night was a classic example of Roos being shown out of his depth with the kind of expert video analysis of the game provided by Bucks. Nathan Buckley actually stepped in several times and bailed Roos out when he was obviously floundering. As someone else said, he owes Bucks one.
No doubt Roos is a good people person, but these days you have to be strategical as well to be a successful coach. Nathan Buckley has proven the doubters wrong so far and I believe with the base of great kids we have coming through a premiership or two is on the horizon. Remember that at this time in 2010 no one would have tipped us to win the flag. |
Absolutely, 100% yes they have improved since Roos took over. If you can't see that you're completely blind. |
I agree they've improved but the pertinent question for me is would this improvement have come anyway given the numbers of quality kids they've added? |
not so sure jackcass. would a jack watts of today be better placed than a jack watts of 2010 or whenever he started? i'd say he would have been a better product if he started in this current regime. lynden dunn is a good example of someone who has improved his game under roos. |
Lyndon Dunne always had some talent, just lacked application. But 2014 was his 10th in the system at just over 100 games. I'm not too sure telling a player this will be his last at the club unless he delivers constitutes great coaching.
And I'm not saying Roos isn't a good coach. I'm just curious about how much of their improvement would have occured under any other coach. I said at the time their list was primed. Said the same about Port, been saying the same about the Doggies.
Now Richo at the Saints I think deserves credit as he turned their list upside down and they're now headed in the right direction. The Roos, Hinkly, Beveridge types have just walked into their clubs and continued the hard work of their predesessors. |
i take your point and agree to some extent. i don't think richo has upheaved the club as much as you'd think and he, too, walked in as a beneficiary of the work of others. that's not to downplay his efforts. the one coach who has really benefited from his predecessor is beveridge and it's no small coincidence that mccartney appears to be having an influence at melbourne in his development role.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | | i take your point and agree to some extent. i don't think richo has upheaved the club as much as you'd think and he, too, walked in as a beneficiary of the work of others. that's not to downplay his efforts. the one coach who has really benefited from his predecessor is beveridge and it's no small coincidence that mccartney appears to be having an influence at melbourne in his development role. |
Under Watters in 2012 Saints lost Goddard via FA and went into the trade period with picks 12 & 13 which they then traded for Hickey and Lee and had a couple of draft picks in the mid 20s. Bit of a bet each way.
Under Richo in 2013 trade period they offloaded Del Santo & Big Boy, traded in Savage, Delaney, Bruce and Longer, and still managed 3x top 20 draft picks. That's upheaval. |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| jackcass wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | i take your point and agree to some extent. i don't think richo has upheaved the club as much as you'd think and he, too, walked in as a beneficiary of the work of others. that's not to downplay his efforts. the one coach who has really benefited from his predecessor is beveridge and it's no small coincidence that mccartney appears to be having an influence at melbourne in his development role. |
Under Watters in 2012 Saints lost Goddard via FA and went into the trade period with picks 12 & 13 which they then traded for Hickey and Lee and had a couple of draft picks in the mid 20s. Bit of a bet each way.
Under Richo in 2013 trade period they offloaded Del Santo & Big Boy, traded in Savage, Delaney, Bruce and Longer, and still managed 3x top 20 draft picks. That's upheaval. |
debating semantics here daz but, that's not upheaval. 
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| John Wren wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Roos is a very good coach.
The Dees are definitely improving.
But really, who cares? |
you should care if you are interested in having an even competition with 18 financially viable teams. |
This is where we strongly disagree JW.
I'm ALL for having financially viable teams in the AFL however since the inception of the national competition, I have always thought that Victoria just would not be able to financially sustain 10 teams over the long run.
For the long term future success of the AFL, it would be bloody crazy if we do not look at reducing the Victorian teams.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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lazza, in the long run perhaps there may be a contraction of the number of teams but i can't see where or how. it's almost at a point of no return. we all know the debacle of the attempted hawthorn/melbourne merger, the disestablishment of fitzroy and the failed bid to relocate the pauperoos. without disenfranchising a portion of the supporter base how do you make it happen and still retain something people want to invest in emotionally and financially?
btw, you and jackcass should be working ... is bendigo shut on a monday?
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| John Wren wrote: | lazza, in the long run perhaps there may be a contraction of the number of teams but i can't see where or how. it's almost at a point of no return. we all know the debacle of the attempted hawthorn/melbourne merger, the disestablishment of fitzroy and the failed bid to relocate the pauperoos. without disenfranchising a portion of the supporter base how do you make it happen and still retain something people want to invest in emotionally and financially?
btw, you and jackcass should be working ... is bendigo shut on a monday? |
This is us working, what could be more important than Collingwood. |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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| John Wren wrote: | | roos is going to achieve what bucks hasn't been able to do this year. |
Losing to the saints with only seconds to go! 
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" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
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perthmagpie
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga
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As for Geelong I think the bulk of their rebuild is going well in some areas, but not so well in others.
Clearly they believe they haven't recruited the right mix in the midfield yet and so are desperate to get Danger and Selwood from WC. The Cats have been getting smashed in contested ball since the start of last year and they know it. The 3rd man up and their recruitment of running rucks is proof they want to avoid stoppages and packs. Selwood is getting hammered every week and his influence has lessened a lot. They try to get the ball away from the contest to negate this weakness.
Their other problem is their old backline. They have the oldest backline in the AFL. Often at selection it includes Taylor, Rivers, Mackie, Enright and Kelly. So they need to replace all those guys by 2017 and replacements are few and far between in their VFL team which is struggling. Most of these old players are still playing well, but it won't be long before they are forced to try something new down back in the key posts.
So they have finally been hit with the socialist strategy that makes it hard to stay up. I don't think its all doom and gloom for them. I don't see them falling towards the bottom but they are behind teams like us in their rebuild.
Melbourne are clearly improving though. I watched that game and they were sharp. Vince and Jones are a dynamic combination.
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