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To the Rohingya refugee crisis, Australia says nope

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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:55 am
Post subject: To the Rohingya refugee crisis, Australia says nopeReply with quote

You've probably heard of this by now:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-asylum-debate-we-have-to-have-20150522-gh7jat.html

Utterly shameful that poor countries like the Philippines—itself hit by a number of humanitarian crises in the past few years—should shoulder this burden while we wash our hands of it.

But it's not just about economic or social burdens. These are people, human beings, who have nowhere to go. Perhaps compassion and empathy aren't in vogue in Australia any more, but how about obligation?

Here's another article on the issue.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/nope-is-not-good-enough-mr-abbott-20150522-gh7hne.html

Quote:
"Looking at these people, me and my friends cried because they looked so hungry, so thin ... How can we not help destitute people like this? It would be a big sin." Muchtar Ali, ​Acehnese fisherman

Hear the words of this man of the sea, for they tell us much about the simplest and most rational of human responses. Mr Ali, who helped rescue more than 400 Rohingya asylum seekers on a squalid boat in the Andaman Sea, speaks a truth that transcends legalities and international politics. He has no time for the hard-line and cynical responses uttered by national leaders, who might prefer to close their eyes to boatloads of asylum seekers and desperate migrants washing around on the high seas. He sees the need. He sees people dying, and Mr Ali and his fellow fishermen know intuitively that we must respond charitably.

Now hear the words of Tony Abbott, a man who leads a nation: "Nope. Nope. Nope."

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Last edited by David on Sat May 23, 2015 11:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 11:29 am
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I was just per chance looking at something on human trafficking in Thailand and was thinking the exact thought.

This is what inward, "gnarly shop keeper" Howardism in all its glory looks like, to employ a Keatingism. Aside from clamouring for middle class handouts, our only other world interests are protecting our own arses, punishing the evildoer, interfering and causing chaos to grab resources and contracts, and whining about poor competitors finally developing.

The gnarly shopkeeper doesn't create jobs and generate future wealth from which both himself and those around him benefit. He cuts social good budgets to get at those he hates regardless of who it impacts and how much future cost it brings, and he pays off the poorest and most corrupt of the poor to soil their hands on his behalf.

Meanwhile, the competitor he fears steals his lunch by satisfying market needs and gradually being seen as the way of the future.

Stupid is, stupid does. Moral gnat is, moral gnat does.

[Now wait for the moral zombie cop out: "But there's too many of 'em to help!"].

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thebaldfacts 



Joined: 02 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:31 pm
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Good to see things are back to normal David😄


And another article with a different slant.

Whilst some think it is compassionate to mouth nice words without any regard for the consequences of actual policy, one needs to be mindful of unintended consequences. Yes you can take selfies at pubs whilst people being plucked from the Indian Ocean, but as long as you say the nice sounding words, then you are compassionate, 1200 dead as a result of compassionate policies. Thousands in detention centres including children.

Being Muslims who are being persecuted by the Buddhist majority, they prefer to go to Muslim countries, yet those who are infected with self loathing seem to want to use this as an Excuse to have a go at our country whose record is as good as anyone in terms of humanitarianism.

A more balanced view supplied by Chris Kenny from The Australian.



Quote:
The pathetic plight of the Rohingya boatpeople in the Andaman Sea underscores how crucial it has been for Australia to restore order to its maritime borders.

Had this crisis occurred two years ago when our border protection regime had been weakened and the influx of boats to Christmas Island was out of control, thousands more lives would have been placed in peril, regional dip­lomacy would have been stretched to breaking point and our facilities and capabilities might have been overwhelmed.

Towards the end of the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd era asylum-seekers were arriving at the rate of 3000 or more a month and, because access to Australia was all but guaranteed, numbers were escalating.

In those circumstances Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia might have been tempted to wave the Rohingya on, knowing people-smugglers could then organise passage to Christmas Island. Who knows where the numbers, the deaths and the trauma would have ended?

This is why Australia must do what it can now — out of compassion — to assist the Rohingya in situ but resist calls to allow their resettlement here. If boat journeys are seen to deliver people to Australia it will create a new market, a new route and a new product for people-smugglers to exploit.

Mercifully, the Rohingya boat-people look likely to be resettled in the US and elsewhere, but the Prime Minister is right to say Australia cannot afford to help this cohort. “Nope, nope, nope.”

By stopping the boats Australia has freed 13,000 humanitarian places that were unavailable under Labor and there are thousands of Rohingya in camps on the Thai or Bangladeshi borders — some of them could be accommodated without setting dangerous precedents (although the evidence is they have not been looking to Australia but preferring to seek refuge in Muslim countries).

The only sustainable resolution for the Rohingya is to be freed from persecution in Myanmar. No country or collection of countries in the region can open their arms to anything up to a million Rohingya. Instead, the international community, which has worked hard to free the people of Myanmar from a military regime, must demand that they, in turn, do the right thing by their Rohingya minority. This has long been a focus for Australia but must now become a higher diplomatic priority for us and, because of US leverage, Barack Obama.

We hear a lot of platitudinous talk about a “regional solution” for refugees and it can mean different things to various people. The first step in any meaningful regional solution must be strong border control by Australia, otherwise the best option for our Southeast Asian neighbours can be to let people-smugglers drop some cash into their economies and pass the people and the problems on.

The ruthless stiff-arm presented to the Rohingya on the water by Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia demonstrates their hardline attitudes and puts Australia’s border protection measures (so often criticised by internal activists and external bodies) into perspective.

Australia’s firm and effective turnback operations (which the Europeans seek to emulate) have been notable for their careful planning and focus on the safety of asylum-seekers. Our border personnel even may be able to help improve these practices in the region. (Imagine the irony: Australians training Indonesians on how to safely turn back boats.)

Posturing over turnbacks has been scripted and hypocritical, with Jakarta playing to nationalistic domestic politics and Labor and Greens politicians using that to defend their wrongheaded opposition to a practice that works.

What is true now has always been so: nation-states have a right and a duty to protect the integrity of their borders, and without such control their security and immigration systems are compromised.

Ideally, humanitarian crises should be dealt with at their source, through aid and diplo­macy, and refugees should be accepted via countries of first asylum and official programs.

The situation in the Andaman also highlights what folly Labor’s so-called Malaysia solution would have been; we could now be trading asylum-seekers to Malaysia in an ugly people-swap for refugees, adding to the chaos and condemning asylum-seekers from Australian care to god knows what. Thank goodness it failed.

Domestically, the latest developments underline the importance of the Abbott government’s border protection success. This has been the Coalition’s single most important policy achievement and the revived debate over the Rohingya shows the ongoing political challenge of maintaining a strong stance.

The persistently ignorant “compassionistas” are endlessly and unquestioningly amplified by the ABC and other media despite the risk their prescription poses to asylum-seekers, national security and our immigration compact.

Refugee activist Julian Burnside tweets that the “real evil is our refusal to help them” even as Australia provides extra aid to Myanmar specifically targeted at the Rohingya. Gosford Anglican priest Rod Bower spreads a similar message. “Our neighbours are catching our evil,” was the slogan posted outside his church.

Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young tried to draw false links between Australian policies and the Andaman standoff: “The boats haven’t stopped. The drownings haven’t stopped. They’re simply happening in our neighbours (sic) waters.” This is quite a stretch; to blame Tony Abbott for issues involving only Myanmar, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia.

Hanson-Young insisted Australia should send vessels, presumably the navy, and urged resettlement of the boatpeople here. She was oblivious (or recklessly indifferent) to the likelihood this would reopen a miserable, perilous trade. We are left to wonder whether she is interested in learning about these issues or simply is determined to run sanctimonious lines in perpetuity.

Labor has echoed these woolly arguments, with Bill Shorten refusing to endorse the Coalition’s turnback policy and opposition immigration spokesman Richard Marles calling the Prime Minister’s stance “utterly appalling”.

Given the tragedy and trauma this nation has seen it may seem beyond belief, but we are seeing pressure from the green-Left, yet again, to weaken our national resolve on borders. Stopping the boats (a second time) has again emptied and closed a dozen detention centres, seen 90 per cent of children ­released from detention, ended people-smuggling into our waters, prevented deaths, opened up 13,000 places for refugees, saved money and restored faith in our immigration system.

It has delivered significant benefits to potential migrants (economic and humanitarian) because it has buttressed a migration program vital to our economic development and national interest.

The only responsible course for government is to consolidate these gains, maintain strong borders and work hard to find lasting solutions to difficult dilemmas such as the deplorable treatment of the Rohingya. To weaken our resolve and unleash border trauma a third time would be disastrously irresponsible.

We can expect differences on these issues to play out strongly in the next election campaign.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:55 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Kenny wrote:
No country or collection of countries in the region can open their arms to anything up to a million Rohingya. Instead, the international community, which has worked hard to free the people of Myanmar from a military regime, must demand that they, in turn, do the right thing by their Rohingya minority.


Oh, it's as easy as that? Good to know. All we do is demand that the rogue Burmese military regime stop persecuting a minority and they'll stop. Just like the sanctions on Russia, which totally ended the occupation of Ukraine.

And what if this cunning plan doesn't work? Send 'em back and tell 'em to join the 'queue'. They may be killed, tortured or starved, but at least we won't have their deaths at sea on our conscience.

But, surely, now, at least, we can put the lie that "the boats have been stopped" to bed. They've stopped coming here, but we've effectively handballed the problem onto our poorer neighbours. At the end of the day, we can crap on about queues and deterrence all we like, but desperate people will find a way to get out of desperate conditions. And we'll continue to look like the callous misers that we are.

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thebaldfacts 



Joined: 02 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:04 pm
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David wrote:

But, surely, now, at least, we can put the lie that "the boats have been stopped" to bed. They've stopped coming here, but we've effectively handballed the problem onto our poorer neighbours. At the end of the day, we can crap on about queues and deterrence all we like, but desperate people will find a way to get out of desperate conditions. And we'll continue to look like the callous misers that we are.


Our policies have stopped the boats, and are emptying the detention centres of adults and children. Yes Sarah Hansen Young will keep on whining and won't be happy until we again are fishing dead bodies of men, women and children out of the Indian Ocean.

Persecuted Muslims from the majority Buddhists have nothing to do with our policies.

Next thing you will be blaming the African deaths in the Mediterranean on our policies.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 7:19 pm
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South East Asia is our local region.

The USA, over 12,000 kilometres away, have made it their problem. We have no excuse for turning our back on this issue.

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thebaldfacts 



Joined: 02 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:40 pm
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David wrote:
South East Asia is our local region.

The USA, over 12,000 kilometres away, have made it their problem. We have no excuse for turning our back on this issue.


What is it with you lefties and this emotive language. Who said that we are turning our backs? We indeed will offer whatever assistance we deem necessary and appropriate especially since we are part of the South East Asia local region.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 8:50 pm
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Assistance that will not, under any circumstances, involve resettlement. That's the hardest part in all of this, make no mistake—resettlement, support services, housing, medical assistance, welfare. Much harder than sending a cheque off overseas and saying, "here, sort yourselves out".

Of course, I support the provision of any foreign aid that we can offer—although one would hope that any given to Myanmar actually gets to the people that that regime is oppressing—but, you know, it's difficult to stand up and applaud when our aid budget has already been slashed so alarmingly.

Basically, we're not pulling our weight, and our neighbours can see it. They don't care about Tony Abbott's stupid slogans or the front page of tomorrow's Daily Telegraph. They can see bullshit for what it is, and they're not impressed.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:27 pm
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Quote:
MOST of the people stranded on boats at sea off Indonesia are not Rohingya refugees but illegal labourers from Bangladesh, Indonesian officials have reportedly told Australian officials.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/rohingya-refugee-crisis-indonesia-claims-boats-carry-bangladesh-labourers/story-fni0xs61-1227366281558

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thebaldfacts 



Joined: 02 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:49 pm
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David wrote:
Assistance that will not, under any circumstances, involve resettlement..


Correct. Our Prime Minister made that abundantly clear. Great to see that you fully understand that.

Just because the government has taken a stand against resettlement does not mean we are turning our backs or not pulling our weight.

The article I posted from Chris Kenny clearly illustrates that.
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thebaldfacts 



Joined: 02 Aug 2007


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:00 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Quote:
MOST of the people stranded on boats at sea off Indonesia are not Rohingya refugees but illegal labourers from Bangladesh, Indonesian officials have reportedly told Australian officials.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/rohingya-refugee-crisis-indonesia-claims-boats-carry-bangladesh-labourers/story-fni0xs61-1227366281558


Bob Carr, our Foreign minister under Gillard admitted that the bulk of boat arrivals were economic refugees, so this is no real surprise.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:01 pm
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David wrote:
Just because the government has taken a stand against resettlement does not mean we are turning our backs or not pulling our weight.


But it does, as I've explained. Towing them back home is not an option, unless we want to be complicit in whatever fate befalls them. They need to be resettled. Our poorer neighbours understand that, so why don't we?

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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:02 pm
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David wrote:
Assistance that will not, under any circumstances, involve resettlement. That's the hardest part in all of this, make no mistake—resettlement, support services, housing, medical assistance, welfare. Much harder than sending a cheque off overseas and saying, "here, sort yourselves out".

Of course, I support the provision of any foreign aid that we can offer—although one would hope that any given to Myanmar actually gets to the people that that regime is oppressing—but, you know, it's difficult to stand up and applaud when our aid budget has already been slashed so alarmingly.

Basically, we're not pulling our weight, and our neighbours can see it. They don't care about Tony Abbott's stupid slogans or the front page of tomorrow's Daily Telegraph. They can see bullshit for what it is, and they're not impressed.


Stiff shit to them. "We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come."
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:05 pm
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Of course you do?
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:11 pm
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Stiff shit to our local trading partners? That's a good one.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, in my view), we don't have the luxury to say that. Stuff like this hurts us, in the short term and in the long term.

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