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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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I actually think Witts and our first rounder might be enough to get one of Shiel or Treloar assuming GWS are wanting to start developing a successor to Mumford by next season and view Witts higher than others already on there list.
Not that I'm advocating this move but he doesn't turn 23 till September and isn't even at the beginning of his prime years as a ruck.
Look at Minson at the dogs as an example how a ruck can be viewed as second rate then suddenly everything clicks and they get to the level of all Australian.
Jolly is another who went from Melbourne a skinny not highly rated junior ruck but then flourished at Sydney primarily because he finally developed the maturity of body and mind to harness the talent within.
Rucks just take time even really good ones and Witts is a good ruck prospect of 208cm and a NSW boy so might garner interest from GWS.
It would be a major gamble though by us and we'd need to search for a suitably aged back up to Grundy from opposition AFL lists or state league competitions.
I can't see us entertaining the idea and we probably shouldn't at least not this season.
P.S-If we were going to use Witts as trade bait then a young key forward like McCarthy might be a better target anyway.
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Witts is going to be a dominating first ruck. I wouldn't trade him for anything. The world is full of mids but it isn't full of players with Witts' weight, height and relative mobility. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it!
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Gee, he's not as quick as Usain Bolt.... go figure! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Neither have I. As much as I'd love the big guy to become a great ruckman for us, I think the modern game is built around mobility and agility, neither of which he has much of. |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Neither have I. As much as I'd love the big guy to become a great ruckman for us, I think the modern game is built around mobility and agility, neither of which he has much of. |
And WCE Cox was such a racehorse
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Snoop Dog wrote: | | Cant judge him on one game but you do get the feeling he hasnt progressed off his good games last year. |
Geez, now I'm totally stumped.... 
I would have thought that of ALL the genuinely respected posters here, you would be the one who realised from your long experience that developing young talent/players takes time and patience. I suppose in this instant coffee society of ours, even guys like you become very impatient when dealing with a medium to long term project like developing a good football team/players over a period of time....  This gives us no hope for players who take a bit longer to develop and we’ll get rid of them to star for opposition teams (eg: Ceglar)..
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Snoop Dog
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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| cressyg wrote: | | Great article Snoop. I have also noted the comments of other bloggers and their wish list of players such as a Treloar or a Prestia or Shiel or Sloane..which is great but unrealistic when what they are offering in return is Witts or Fasolo. This has been our biggest problem over the past 15 years. We go after the big players but we only offer our lesser rung players. WE have an overly large opinion of our seniors that they are all individually world beaters and cannot be traded. I am sorry but the likes of Fasolo, Dwyer, Macaffer, Kennedy, Young, Reid, Armstrong, Sinclair and/or Karnezis (all players that are struggling to get a game in the seniors) are not going to get us the players we desire. We need to be bold if we really want a key midfielder or KPF. So if GWS say to the Pies yes you can have Treloar or Shiel or Melbourne say they would trade Hogan but you have only one offer to do so who would you realistically offer. Remember.. You don't get something for nothing!! unless it is FA |
I agree with that. We kicked and moaned about giving up something decent for Jolly but it proved the difference in winning a flag and frankly very nearly delivered us another.
I think the other thing to remember is IF these boys want to come back they will be 'well bid'. Richmond, Hawthorn, Geelong all have reasonably strong cases and loads of cash to tempt them so getting them 'cheaply' is absurd.
For me thats why you have to consider Witts. The issue with Jarrod is that how many clubs need a ruck? Swans I think would be keen and I do think GWS would as well given they dont really have a successor to Mumford and they will want an elite ruck to ensure they maintain their momentum.
Lot of people dont like Suckling but the difference between he and say Yarran who people tend to advocate is that Suckling is a FA. Yarran will cost a pick around 15-20.
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Snoop Dog
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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| cressyg wrote: | | Great article Snoop. I have also noted the comments of other bloggers and their wish list of players such as a Treloar or a Prestia or Shiel or Sloane..which is great but unrealistic when what they are offering in return is Witts or Fasolo. This has been our biggest problem over the past 15 years. We go after the big players but we only offer our lesser rung players. WE have an overly large opinion of our seniors that they are all individually world beaters and cannot be traded. I am sorry but the likes of Fasolo, Dwyer, Macaffer, Kennedy, Young, Reid, Armstrong, Sinclair and/or Karnezis (all players that are struggling to get a game in the seniors) are not going to get us the players we desire. We need to be bold if we really want a key midfielder or KPF. So if GWS say to the Pies yes you can have Treloar or Shiel or Melbourne say they would trade Hogan but you have only one offer to do so who would you realistically offer. Remember.. You don't get something for nothing!! unless it is FA |
I agree with that. We kicked and moaned about giving up something decent for Jolly but it proved the difference in winning a flag and frankly very nearly delivered us another.
I think the other thing to remember is IF these boys want to come back they will be 'well bid'. Richmond, Hawthorn, Geelong all have reasonably strong cases and loads of cash to tempt them so getting them 'cheaply' is absurd.
For me thats why you have to consider Witts. The issue with Jarrod is that how many clubs need a ruck? Swans I think would be keen and I do think GWS would as well given they dont really have a successor to Mumford and they will want an elite ruck to ensure they maintain their momentum.
Lot of people dont like Suckling but the difference between he and say Yarran who people tend to advocate is that Suckling is a FA. Yarran will cost a pick around 15-20.
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'You da man' |
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Snoop Dog
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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| swoop42 wrote: | I actually think Witts and our first rounder might be enough to get one of Shiel or Treloar assuming GWS are wanting to start developing a successor to Mumford by next season and view Witts higher than others already on there list.
Not that I'm advocating this move but he doesn't turn 23 till September and isn't even at the beginning of his prime years as a ruck.
Look at Minson at the dogs as an example how a ruck can be viewed as second rate then suddenly everything clicks and they get to the level of all Australian.
Jolly is another who went from Melbourne a skinny not highly rated junior ruck but then flourished at Sydney primarily because he finally developed the maturity of body and mind to harness the talent within.
Rucks just take time even really good ones and Witts is a good ruck prospect of 208cm and a NSW boy so might garner interest from GWS.
It would be a major gamble though by us and we'd need to search for a suitably aged back up to Grundy from opposition AFL lists or state league competitions.
I can't see us entertaining the idea and we probably shouldn't at least not this season.
P.S-If we were going to use Witts as trade bait then a young key forward like McCarthy might be a better target anyway. |
Assuming Sheil, Treloar or even WHE were available then I think it would be Witts and a Rd 1 selection (particularly if ours was circa 10+).
McCarthy wont be leaving. Be very surprised.
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Snoop Dog
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
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| Lazza wrote: | | Snoop Dog wrote: | | Cant judge him on one game but you do get the feeling he hasnt progressed off his good games last year. |
Geez, now I'm totally stumped....
I would have thought that of ALL the genuinely respected posters here, you would be the one who realised from your long experience that developing young talent/players takes time and patience. I suppose in this instant coffee society of ours, even guys like you become very impatient when dealing with a medium to long term project like developing a good football team/players over a period of time.... This gives us no hope for players who take a bit longer to develop and we’ll get rid of them to star for opposition teams (eg: Ceglar).. |
Sorry dont for a moment think I am advocating Broomhead has been disappointing. the point was more I was v excited by him at end of last year and just thought he would go to another level this year. Just havent seen any evidence at all to be honest he has but I dont want to lose him. I actually wonder if he isnt more a HF type, why i get confused with him is that he is so good in traffic when he has it he is perfect for the middle. Anyway the club are heavily invested in him and he will get plenty of time.
Re Witts the only reason I advocate contemplating trading Witts is because to get something good you have to give something up of equal value. Therefore you have to decide what you can give up. I can only think of him but I would prefer above all else for those two rucks to demonstrate they can both be weapons in the same 22 for us.
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'You da man' |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Snoop Dog wrote: | Sorry dont for a moment think I am advocating Broomhead has been disappointing. the point was more I was v excited by him at end of last year and just thought he would go to another level this year. Just havent seen any evidence at all to be honest he has but I dont want to lose him. I actually wonder if he isnt more a HF type, why i get confused with him is that he is so good in traffic when he has it he is perfect for the middle. Anyway the club are heavily invested in him and he will get plenty of time.
Re Witts the only reason I advocate contemplating trading Witts is because to get something good you have to give something up of equal value. Therefore you have to decide what you can give up. I can only think of him but I would prefer above all else for those two rucks to demonstrate they can both be weapons in the same 22 for us. |
Ah thanks Snoop, that is a lot clearer to me. I have very high hopes for Broomy but the lad requires time and patience and persistence at this early stage of his career.
As for Witts, he is a favourite but again, we need to focus on current team balance issues AS WELL AS being patient with his development.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| neil wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Neither have I. As much as I'd love the big guy to become a great ruckman for us, I think the modern game is built around mobility and agility, neither of which he has much of. |
And WCE Cox was such a racehorse |
Cox was a great player, but I actually think the modern game has moved on, even from a couple of years ago. The ruck set-up which Geelong employed against us, a fortnight ago, shows the direction footy is going in imo. That's why Minson can't get a game with the Dogs, despite being almost the best ruck in the comp last season. Grundy is great, because he is mobile and agile and plays like an extra midfielder. If we didn't have Grundy we'd be desperate to hold on to Witts, but as it stands I'm not so sure that's the case right now. Perhaps if he showed the sort of mongrel that Mumford has, I'd change my mind. I've always seen him as our main ruckman for the next decade, but the way the game is played these days, I'm fast losing confidence in his value. I truly hope that I'm wrong. |
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neil
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | neil wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Neither have I. As much as I'd love the big guy to become a great ruckman for us, I think the modern game is built around mobility and agility, neither of which he has much of. |
And WCE Cox was such a racehorse |
Cox was a great player, but I actually think the modern game has moved on, even from a couple of years ago. The ruck set-up which Geelong employed against us, a fortnight ago, shows the direction footy is going in imo. That's why Minson can't get a game with the Dogs, despite being almost the best ruck in the comp last season. Grundy is great, because he is mobile and agile and plays like an extra midfielder. If we didn't have Grundy we'd be desperate to hold on to Witts, but as it stands I'm not so sure that's the case right now. Perhaps if he showed the sort of mongrel that Mumford has, I'd change my mind. I've always seen him as our main ruckman for the next decade, but the way the game is played these days, I'm fast losing confidence in his value. I truly hope that I'm wrong. |
Sandilands took a long time to come good as did Mumford Jolly was never quick any team can cover a slow ruckman as long as he can get to the bounces and has an engine.
I also hope Witts learns how to unleash the monster in him perhaps his shoulder injury( had an interrupted preseason) is hindering him
The trick is to have faster mids and others to cover him. Witts as a forward problem is a lack of quality forwards. If we had more than just Cloke and Elliot the opposition defence would be spending far more time covering them. Consider the difficulties if we has a Rioli in our forward line.
This is why Kennedy and Freeman hopefully will play senior football this year.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| neil wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | neil wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | inxs88 wrote: | | Witts relative mobility? Really? Aint seen it! |
Neither have I. As much as I'd love the big guy to become a great ruckman for us, I think the modern game is built around mobility and agility, neither of which he has much of. |
And WCE Cox was such a racehorse |
Cox was a great player, but I actually think the modern game has moved on, even from a couple of years ago. The ruck set-up which Geelong employed against us, a fortnight ago, shows the direction footy is going in imo. That's why Minson can't get a game with the Dogs, despite being almost the best ruck in the comp last season. Grundy is great, because he is mobile and agile and plays like an extra midfielder. If we didn't have Grundy we'd be desperate to hold on to Witts, but as it stands I'm not so sure that's the case right now. Perhaps if he showed the sort of mongrel that Mumford has, I'd change my mind. I've always seen him as our main ruckman for the next decade, but the way the game is played these days, I'm fast losing confidence in his value. I truly hope that I'm wrong. |
Sandilands took a long time to come good as did Mumford Jolly was never quick any team can cover a slow ruckman as long as he can get to the bounces and has an engine.
I also hope Witts learns how to unleash the monster in him perhaps his shoulder injury( had an interrupted preseason) is hindering him
The trick is to have faster mids and others to cover him. Witts as a forward problem is a lack of quality forwards. If we had more than just Cloke and Elliot the opposition defence would be spending far more time covering them. Consider the difficulties if we has a Rioli in our forward line.
This is why Kennedy and Freeman hopefully will play senior football this year. |
Wise words neil. |
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