The "zero tolerance" approach to domestic violence

[David]

I'm aware that this is a sensitive topic with personal associations for people on here, and hope no-one will mind me raising it.

When you read up enough on domestic violence, both in newspapers and social media posts, you'll hear a common refrain: "if he hits you once, walk away"; that is, any act of physical violence – anything from a vicious beating to a slap across the face – should mean the end of a relationship.

I'm interested to hear what others here think of this, particularly now in an age where domestic violence is widely discussed and (rightly) seen as far more unacceptable than it once was.

My view is a complex one. I remember an ex-girlfriend telling me once that if a partner ever raised their voice at her, she would break up with them on the spot. At the time, I saw that as an admirable and sensible stance – drawing a line in the sand on what was important to her – and decided that I should adopt the same policy for any partner who ever acted aggressively towards me. Perhaps we were taking it a step further, but the logic was essentially the same as someone saying one slap or one instance of verbal abuse means it's over. We were taking a zero tolerance approach toward something we found intolerable.

As I've gotten older, I've started to doubt the wisdom of such an approach. It's not that domestic violence is something that should ever be tolerated. Indeed, I still believe that no aggressive behaviour between partners should ever be. It's more an acceptance that, in long-term relationships, a lot of intolerable things are bound to happen. Given enough time, partners are going to hurt each other in all sorts of ways. The survival of their relationship will depend on their ability to not tolerate but to atone for and forgive such missteps. As much as everyone has their breaking point, I'm not sure that a "zero tolerance" approach to domestic violence really makes sense in that context.

I suspect that the "zero tolerance" approach is more aimed at women who are victims (or may become victims) of habitual violence, as a means of getting out before things get really bad. In that context, it makes total sense; and, of course, as no-one can see into the future, it also makes sense to draw the line at "never".

But we sometimes forget that there are many different kinds of domestic violence (even if we're merely discussing its physical manifestations): it might be someone who's thrown a plate at their partner twice in five years. It might be a couple that get into drunken wrestling and glass-smashing matches every Friday night. It might be someone who's never laid a hand on their partner in decades subjecting them to a vicious beating. And, needless to say, the gender of the perpetrator and/or victim tends to dramatically affect how people look at this issue. I don't know if we can take a one-size-fits-all approach to this problem.

I also say this because, as someone who experienced domestic violence as a child – mostly in the form of corporal punishment, but sometimes just frustrated acts of lashing out – I'm someone who has to live with that complexity (and no, I don't think a ten-year-old boy being whipped across the legs with a cane is more acceptable than a grown woman being slapped). I don't get to break up with my parents; they will always be family. And, as it happens, I have been able to have some semblance of a functional relationship with them in my adult life. While I wish I'd been able to confront them, particularly my father, about what they did to me when I was younger, I think I've benefited from having those relationships in my life.

Does anyone agree? Or should any instance of domestic violence in a relationship – and I mean any – mean it's over?

[stui magpie]

I like your approach. I have some stories I'll share when I'm sober. Ish.

[think positive]

I wish my mum had left the first time. As far as I'm concerned he killed her, first emotionally, and then smashed her body to pieces. he is on my Facebook but I often delete his comments. And if I never see him again, I won't be sorry. I'm done.

I actually have a few friends who did completely break up with their parents, didn't even go to their funerals. And I get that. I wish I had that courage to just walk away completely.

I had a mad crush on a guy for a couple of years, and then went out with him for two years, and one day he hit me, gave me a small shiner, and I got out the car and walked away. I never looked back, and he went on to terrorise his next girlfriend, and he has a mail order bride now.

Of course you have some good memories; he woke us up for school with a whilstle and a milky coffee every day, he polished our marching boots til they gleamed. I tried so hard to be daddy's girl. But nothing was ever good enough. And I remember far too many times he would rant and rave his way around the house, and I would crawl under my bed to the furthest corner, crying with terror, my teddy in my face so he wouldn't hear me. How do you know if the first time is the last time? You don't until the second time.

I hope I've raised my girls to not accept bullying of any kind. From anyone, family or friend. And certainly not from a partner. Have enough self worth that you don't ever feel you should take that shit. David, good on you if you can forgive them, but you admit it has scarred you. Shame on them. They broke a trust that should not be broken. For me, I believe you can put a verbal bully back in their box, but once that line is crossed, you can never really go back.

[Skids]

Yes, an interesting topic.
You know my daughters story. Since she got back with her partner, I haven't seen her. We didn't speak for weeks after I told her what I thought. Sure, I probably could've expressed myself better but hey, I was shocked to hear what she was telling me.

So they're off to Sydney/Melbourne/Hobart over the festive season. I might see her before they go.
I honestly, at this stage, can't see me accepting this bloke anywhere near me.... she says they're getting married in 6 months and if I don't wanna lose her, I have to accept him "what about when we have kids?" she asks.

It sucks, cnut of a situation. She's 26 and it's her life

I met Tams mum when I was 17, January 26th 1984, the first ever 96fm Perth skyworks fireworks. It's still a big Australia day on the banks of the Swan waiting for the show.

We always had what some called a fiery relationship. I remember an argument in my car at a fast food drive thru, not long after we'd met. She headbutted the windscereen from the passenger seat and broke it (this should have been a sign).
I heard she had a voodoo doll of me in the boot of her Gemini, I never saw that

We broke up and got back together numerous times over the next 12 months before we moved in to a unit together. I had just turned 18, 3rd year apprentice plumber. She worked part time at her old mans business.
We use to party pretty hard, mostly just alcohol, a bit of weed on the weekends maybe, but mainly drinking.
I've always been one to take sanctuary on the floor of the shower when i'm in a not too good shape. Makes it easier if you have to puke or poo and the water has that soothing quality.

The pokey units tiny bathroom had a shower over a bath and I was wallowing in the bath one drunken night when my psycho ex decided it would be a good idea to have the final say, in what ever we'd been fighting about, and turn the cold water off and hot water on full.

That was the only time I've ever hit a woman. I didn't remember, I saw the bruise on her cheek the next day. We told everyone she'd slipped on the stairs. I was totally ashamed of what I'd done and I've never hit a woman since.

[stui magpie]

Ok,

I raised my kids never to hit a woman. 3 short stories.

1. Several years ago my stepson was living with a woman. They had a baby, she already had a kid to a previous relationship. They used to get pissed when the older kid was off at his fathers and could get a bit feisty. One Fiday night my daughter was over there with her BF. My Stepson, his GF and the daughters BF were all drinking. The BF went out to just ute for a nap, the Step son and his GF started "play fighting" which escalated from her and she started swinging punches at him. He blocked and covered, she started swinging at his head. After a couple of clips, he told her to stop punching him in the head, she didn't and after one clipped him right on the temple he shot out 1 short straight jab right on the nose. Whether reflex, retaliation, I don't know but it dropped her. She started screaming, he was horrified and ran off to grab a bag of peas from the freezer but she wouldn't have a bar of him. Relationship over. He was shattered.

2. My son was shacked up with a psycho. I used to call her "the Captain" aka Captain snooze. Anyway, they reached the point where he decided to break up with her but she wouldn't wear that. A couple of times, she got right in his face, yelling insults and swinging punches at him and daring him to hit her. he didn't. As angry as he was he was bought up not to and he also knew that if he touched her she'd put photos of bruises on social media and slander him good and proper. So he put his fist through a door instead and got out of there.

3. years ago, my daughters mother told me that the daughters BF had been hitting her, but not to say anything. WTF? Anyway, I watched them closely together when they came over for dinner or just to visit. They were casual and relaxed. She'd punch him in the thigh sometimes and he'd punch her back, not hard. I saw no flinching, no fear in her eyes. After a while, I pulled her aside and told her what her mother had said and that I'd been looking for signs but hadn't seen any, so what's going on? She ripped me a new one for even thinking that she'd stay with a bloke who hit her, he burst into tears when he was told that i could believe that of him (I didn't and hadn't but needed to observe myself to be sure) and things went really frosty between them and her mum for a fair while.

Family violence should never be condoned. Men may have the mortgage on the physical violence, many women have perfected the psychological kind.

I don't think that one instance should automatically mean game over for the relationship, there's always a context but it's up to the individual.

[think positive]

if the girlfriend was hitting him, then she should be charged, it works both ways. cant blame stepson for giving her one back if you cant get away.

good on your son.

and i really like your daughter!! me thinks she has balls!

[swoop42]

[swoop42]

I have an Indian couple living next door to me in my unit block.

Like the residents in the other 2 units I have nothing to do with them other than a polite hello on the rare occasion we're both outside at the same time.

However I can often hear them engage in heated argument through the wall. Though this is not a daily occurrence it happens to often for my liking.

The last time it was particularly loud and ended with one of them sobbing.

I assume it was the woman but can't be certain.

I seriously contemplated calling the police.

Complicating the issue greatly is that they speak in there native language so I can't obviously grasp the context of the arguments, who is the main aggressor and if any threats of physical violence are being made.

You would assume the male is the main culprit though I have have heard her and only her on occasion yelling in argument so it's unwise and unfair to lump everything on him I guess.

While I was away from home this year my mum and sister who were at my unit collecting my mail were bundled up by her and from what they could gather there were some domestic issues and the partner may have been taken away by the police at the time though this is only conjecture on our part. She was acquiring where I was even though we had never spoken. I can only assume she was hoping I could assist in terms of evidence if need ever came about.

Alas this woman is still with her partner and is now visibly pregnant.

When I was leaving for a walk the other day it looked like a woman from some sort of agency was going to visit her though I was out of my driveway by then so only assuming she went to her unit.

Not sure if it was just a nurse checking up on her pregnancy or some other form of support person.

Given her situation I assume of being a newly arrived first generation Australian and having little to none family support I feel sorry for her if indeed she isn't 50% to blame (again we shouldn't be sexist and assume though continued physical violence isn't acceptable anyway).

Alas I'll never understand why most women stay with an abusive partner let alone continue to have sex and fall pregnant to them.

While I'm not one of them (LOL) given there are plenty of decent and kind men out there why not look elsewhere or be single, safe and happy.

[stui magpie]

^

There's a number of reasons why someone will stay with an abusive partner, not the least that it can be the most dangerous time for them if they threaten to leave. There's been research about the mental state of people who stay and also people who repeatedly end up with abusive partners but I've only heard parts of it quoted.

Suggestion, If you're concerned, give this mob a call http://edvos.org.au/ and talk to someone about your suspiscions.

[Culprit]

In recent extreme cases where the death of children has occurred the perpetrator had mental health issues yet we let them roam free in society knowing they have a problem as it's cheaper than housing them in mental facilities. Throw in all I keep hearing is all men beat up women. Then we have the cultures where it's the husbands right to rape and beat his wife yet nothing is done to them as it becomes a race issue.

[Skids]

[Pies4shaw]

Well, no, not according to that article - but culture, yes.

[Mugwump]

Simple rules like the one you posit might be good for 9 cases out of 10 but completely wrong for the tenth. The question is really whether the afflicted party (if the violence is one-way) has a choice, or whether they are effectively imprisoned by economic dependence, childhood or whatever. If they have a choice, and they stay, then perhaps they are being more mature than someone who walks because of one sin on the part of the other. And as Stui's post shows, the person who hits may not be the greatest aggressor. Life is way too shaded to be imposed upon by such bright lines.

The woman who said she'd leave if someone raised their voice at her might be a saint who would never raise her voice at another, but i doubt she'd be easy to live with. I'd rather live with a flawed human being who sought to understand context, purpose, and the possibility of forgiveness and understanding than a pharisaical law-maker with red lines that many essentially good people might transgress in a moment of passion. Spare me such emotional totalitarians.

I don't write here about my private life much because I think privacy is precious, but in 25+ years of marriage I know that I have sinned often enough (though never in violence) , and I am fortunate to be married to a woman who has forgiven me the usual ration of inconsiderateness and frustration that passes through most relationships as complicated as a marriage.

So to answer your question, context is all. In most cases, yes, one act of violence should certainly make you question why you would stay. But let's beware, always, those who want others' lives to be tidy.

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

It's a complicated topic and many people have stories.

I provided some examples which go against the norm, but the norm is still the norm.

it's too easy to say to someone they should just leave because it's way more complicated than that. Emotion and logic are notoriously bad bedfellows. Not to mention that statistically (i'm told, haven't researched it myself) a woman is at most danger in an abusive relationship if/when she's about to leave.

For many, the majority of the violence is psychological not physical and even when it is physical the psychological damage can be more than the physical.

It's a complicated thing and black and white solutions don't work well in that environment.