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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Because they have no experience of non-Islamic terrorist incidents in the UK. Dates back to the 70s, with the Angry Brigade and the Islamic Republican Army. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ WPT, I think you are again reacting to what you wish I had said, but did not. I did not say that the Left is responsible for jihadist acts. I said that the modern Left have been the principal driving force and apologists behind mass immigration, and this is the social change which explains why those acts, which appear endemic to a small segment of that faith, are happening on our streets. I should have thought that this was self-evident and not WTF territory at all.
I don't think the Liberal Party is really a Conservative party, and I am dubious that the ALP is a Socialist party. Both are libertarian parties, as I explained at length above. Still, if you want to make that rather antiquated equation, the Liberal Party has indeed tended to support a high level of legal immigration. This seems to be partly from fear of the unprincipled "racist" slur, partly a recognition that organised voting by immigrant communities can decide elections (all the Liberals care about apart from private enrichment), and partly because globalization and a high level of unskilled labour weakens the unions and suits business (the 7/11 disgrace is one extreme manifestation of this, and there are almost certainly many others).
However, I think it is pretty clear that allowing unmanaged immigration via asylum, thereby increasing the power and presence of Islam within our society, and defending Islam more generally, has tended to be an enthusiasm of the left - in all its manifestations from the ALP to the Greens - more than the Right. The Liberal Party, form Tampa on, has at least tended to push for some controls. I think the Libs are a force for social fragmentation through libertarianism - but it does have some vestigial instincts which make it push back against the modern mass-immigration orthodoxy at the edges.
As for your suggestion that challenges to immigration levels are a feelgood slogan of the "extreme right", this demonstrates the strange mentality which now operates within our political discourse. There is nothing "extreme" about the desire to manage and control immigration, or challenging and arguing against the ideology which underpins it. That is just language designed to silence dissent. I believe that the ideology behind mass immigration is more of the Left than the right, and I think most people would recognise that as a statement of political fact. Calling that view extreme right exemplifies the way in which quite respectable, reasonable and common points of view are blackened as "extremism" (among other familiar terms). Perhaps both sides of politics do this to some extent, but it is more common in the Marxist tradition.
You are quite right that the legacy of Bush and Blair in the Middle East is a lamentable one. I am reluctant to blame any individual other than those who plant the bombs, however, as I think that is a dangerous game, which is particularly played by those who wish to impugn Israel. I doubt that the 2003 invasion is really at the root of modern Islamic intolerance and homicide, in any case, as 9/11 predates Iraq, and Germany, for example, has not intervened in the Middle East at all. The objective seems to be a genocidal religious imperialism by a non-negligible part of the Islamic faith with this instinct deep in its bones, rather than a rational political programme with which could one could negotiate or bargain.
Still, Bush and Blair provided an accelerant to flames that were already well alight. If that is your argument, I could not agree with you more. I don't see what that has to do with the issue under discussion, but it is good that we agree on something. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Because they have no experience of non-Islamic terrorist incidents in the UK. Dates back to the 70s, with the Angry Brigade and the Islamic Republican Army. |
better class of terrorist we had back then. Squeamish, really. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Interestingly, the data shows that the number of terrorist attacks in Western Europe is lower now than it was in any year from 1972 to 1997 and the total number of deaths by terrorism is trivial, statistically (your chance of living in Western Europe for an entire year and being killed in a terrorist attack is a little under 1 in 2,000,000). |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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The 6 deaths from terrorism in Australia in the last decade are scary, too, of course. To put it in context, we'd save about 25 times that many people every year by cancelling Australia Day (heatstroke dehydration after too many stubbies is a much greater danger). |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Pies4shaw wrote: | The 6 deaths from terrorism in Australia in the last decade are scary, too, of course. To put it in context, we'd save about 25 times that many people every year by cancelling Australia Day (heatstroke dehydration after too many stubbies is a much greater danger). |
Saddens me to say, but the next decade is the one that is going to be scary. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Yep: climate change isn't going away anytime soon. That's the real enemy. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Yep, all those burning oil fields aren't helping. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I wouldn't call that a terrorist act. I'd call it a sick sadistic cnuts act. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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NEW YEAR'S EVE TERROR: TWO attacks foiled as helicopters with MACHINE GUNS guard cities
TERROR police are manning helicopters with MACHINE GUNS to protect New Year’s Eve revellers as at least two plots are foiled amid heightened threat of ISIS attack.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/747941/terror-attack-plot-New-Year-Eve-foiled-police-cities
In response to the heightened terror threat the Spanish Ministry of the Interior has increased security at focal points across the country where crowds are likely to gather for New Year’s celebrations.
Some 800 personnel - 400 from the National Police and 400 from the Municipal Police - will be drafted in to keep revellers safe.
An extra 800 specially-trained in counter-terrorism police officers will be stationed around Milan, Rome and Turin, the cities feared to be most at risk of terrorism. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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But don't try and have a peaceful protest against them.....
Cologne police have banned a demonstration planned by the far-right NPD for New Year’s Eve at the city’s Dom, citing “security concerns.” The rally was set to mark and protest last year’s sexual assaults involving refugees on women during the celebrations.
https://www.rt.com/news/371974-cologne-npd-rally-refugees/
The planned demonstration drew staunch opposition from the anti-fascist and leftist movements. One should not allow the NPD to “take advantage” of the demo and “use the international press” to promote their ideas, a message by the “Cologne against far-right” movement said. According to the statement, the NPD will simply try to “exploit” the situation for their “racist” slogans.
unbelievable. Exploit the situation?? No... try and prevent further attacks by these animals on girls & women. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Unfortunately you are denying the plain fact that there will always be a small minority who will exploit such events to further their cause and push their far right, sometime white supremist views. IMHO, both bookends are as bad as each other, as are the bloody evil terrorists. _________________ Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^^^ The authorities are reasonably confident that by preventing the neo-Nazis from marching they will help to protect women and children but they are concerned that it's really hard to stop far-right animals. However, there's some hope that community-minded refugees will help to keep people safe from ultra-rightist abuse. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pies4shaw wrote: | ^^^ The authorities are reasonably confident that by preventing the neo-Nazis from marching they will help to protect women and children but they are concerned that it's really hard to stop far-right animals. However, there's some hope that community-minded refugees will help to keep people safe from ultra-rightist abuse. |
Hippos always struck me as far right animals. Nasty bastards.
I'd call the 80mm of rain i copped in an hour a terrorist act if I could figure out how to blame ISIS _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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