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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | ronrat wrote: | | David wrote: | | ^ And you think that was OK? |
In some circumstances yes. The Italians were pretty much highly productive and many stayed in the areas. They didn't want to go back and die for Mussolini. At least we interred them and didn't give them a one way ticket to a "shower". A lot of boys of German descent fought in WW 1 for Australia because their families fled German persecution. But WW2 was fought on different ideologies and the Government of the day had no mechanism to handle it all. Our intelligence services were British to the bootsraps and they had their hands full with communists as well. It was natural they would be suspicious of Germans and later the Japanese, both who inflicted casualties in Australian waters (Centaur and Sydney 11). It is better to be safe than sorry. What would you have done differently? |
I would not have indefinitely imprisoned people who had committed no crime. But what do you think? If, for whatever reason, Australia and Thailand end up on opposing sides of a conflict, would you be happy to go to say goodbye to your home, the Missus and everyday life and head off to a Thai prison for three or four years? Or do you think that might be going a bit far? |
The question isn't whether he'd like it, of course he wouldn't.
The questions is, would Thailand be justified in doing it?
The correct answer is, don't know it would depend on the situation at the time.
Would you like being conscripted and either sent off to fight in a war or sent to prison if you refused? I bet not, that doesn't mean that conscription isn't sometimes necessary.
What's that saying? The needs of the state and the majority outweigh the needs of the individual?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Look, I'm as much of a utilitarian as anyone, but I just don't think such a thing could ever be justified. I suspect the dangers of spying or sabotage from Japanese/German civilians were either hugely overestimated or else it was more of a PR exercise aimed at placating suspicious civilians. These were the days of the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generations; it wasn't exactly the most enlightened time in our nation's history.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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Not quite a terrorist act, maybe they were just looking for a Bunnings or just didn't read the gas bottle label correctly and thought it said Cop n Go.
Let's wait for more info. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| 5150 wrote: |
Not quite a terrorist act, maybe they were just looking for a Bunnings or just didn't read the gas bottle label correctly and thought it said Cop n Go.
Let's wait for more info. |
Highly doubt that. Why would he have so many Petrol Containers in his Car?
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I am Da Man |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | 5150 wrote: |
Not quite a terrorist act, maybe they were just looking for a Bunnings or just didn't read the gas bottle label correctly and thought it said Cop n Go.
Let's wait for more info. |
Highly doubt that. Why would he have so many Petrol Containers in his Car? |
I think he might be joking honey 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Look, I'm as much of a utilitarian as anyone, but I just don't think such a thing could ever be justified. I suspect the dangers of spying or sabotage from Japanese/German civilians were either hugely overestimated or else it was more of a PR exercise aimed at placating suspicious civilians. These were the days of the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generations; it wasn't exactly the most enlightened time in our nation's history. |
It was also a time when we did not feel the need to lock up refugees on Manus Island, or price the young out of a home, or run the risk of having a carousel full of small children ploughed up by hatred in a truck, or planes full of humanity crashed into buildings full of humanity. It was a time when we did not high levels of street violence, or ludicrous CEO pay, or child pornography or sexual violence against women.
The past was certainly rifted with horrors, from war to (genuine) racism to institutional sex abuse, and much besides. But maybe "enlightenment" is as qualified today as it was yesterday. Maybe humanity doesn't actually progress to an ideal, but just recycles its vices - power, intellectual hatred, lust - into different channels, while congratulating itself on its present enlightenment.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | David wrote: | | Look, I'm as much of a utilitarian as anyone, but I just don't think such a thing could ever be justified. I suspect the dangers of spying or sabotage from Japanese/German civilians were either hugely overestimated or else it was more of a PR exercise aimed at placating suspicious civilians. These were the days of the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generations; it wasn't exactly the most enlightened time in our nation's history. |
It was also a time when we did not feel the need to lock up refugees on Manus Island, or price the young out of a home, or run the risk of having a carousel full of small children ploughed up by hatred in a truck, or planes full of humanity crashed into buildings full of humanity. It was a time when we did not high levels of street violence, or ludicrous CEO pay, or child pornography or sexual violence against women.
The past was certainly rifted with horrors, from war to (genuine) racism to institutional sex abuse, and much besides. But maybe "enlightenment" is as qualified today as it was yesterday. Maybe humanity doesn't actually progress to an ideal, but just recycles its vices - power, intellectual hatred, lust - into different channels, while congratulating itself on its present enlightenment. |
A bit depressing & glum but it resonates - like what you posted.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | David wrote: | | Look, I'm as much of a utilitarian as anyone, but I just don't think such a thing could ever be justified. I suspect the dangers of spying or sabotage from Japanese/German civilians were either hugely overestimated or else it was more of a PR exercise aimed at placating suspicious civilians. These were the days of the White Australia Policy and the Stolen Generations; it wasn't exactly the most enlightened time in our nation's history. |
It was also a time when we did not feel the need to lock up refugees on Manus Island, or price the young out of a home, or run the risk of having a carousel full of small children ploughed up by hatred in a truck, or planes full of humanity crashed into buildings full of humanity. It was a time when we did not high levels of street violence, or ludicrous CEO pay, or child pornography or sexual violence against women.
The past was certainly rifted with horrors, from war to (genuine) racism to institutional sex abuse, and much besides. But maybe "enlightenment" is as qualified today as it was yesterday. Maybe humanity doesn't actually progress to an ideal, but just recycles its vices - power, intellectual hatred, lust - into different channels, while congratulating itself on its present enlightenment. |
Perhaps. But I'm with Steven Pinker on this society does seem to be getting less violent with every passing year. We shouldn't confuse greater awareness of certain vices with greater incidence. And I think it's clear that, whatever the behaviour of individuals within our society, we have guiding concepts today of universal human rights and the moral value of equality that were far from mainstream a few generations ago. Even as horrors like Manus Island tempt us to embrace pessimism, I think these paradigms are having a net positive impact.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Turned out to be some Mental Case who Attacked the Police Station. Well that is the Story at the Moment
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I am Da Man |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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No they're not. They're being cautious, which is perfectly appropriate in the wake of such atrocities when the motives are not always known. Would you rather they shoot their mouths off and publicly speculate? That's not what good leaders do.
As for the article's reference to Bill O'Reilly being a "conservative" (yes, with ironic quotation marks), I think this tells us everything about that writer's agenda that we need to know.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Did you just Ad Hom the writer without addressing his arguments? David, I'm shocked. See me after class.  |
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