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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Morrigu wrote: | ^ bullshite and you know it!
The reason given for the children not signing was well publicised and not without merit - it was not hidden even remotely and was not the main focus of the ensuing discussion.
The discussion was more about the response by HuT and assertions such as yours I seem to recall that prioritising God over country is fine and that patriotic Aistrralians are in your opinion the " vocal miniority"
You should change your user name to PTID Jnr - seriously  |
Bullshite that people out there aren't spinning this as evil Muslim treachery? If so, I think you gravely underestimate the malice and stupidity of the anti-Muslim lobby. This plays right into their favourite narratives.
Otherwise, I stand by my assumption that patriotism is not a significant part of mainstream Australian culture and my belief that, regardless, being non-patriotic (or, indeed, actively dissident) is not only perfectly legitimate, it is perhaps preferable to patriotism.
As for me being PTID Junior... lol. I doubt you intend that as a compliment, but I'll take it as one anyway. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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As someone who is quite adamantly and vocally anti-Islamic I find this episode to be a bit bizarre. These are kids, so I doubt their motivations would be some kind of 'Middle Finger' to Australia, especially considering that most kids will go well out of their way to not appear 'different'. In fact these kids (or their parents) have respectfully informed the school that they can't sing for religious reasons during a specified timeframe. If they wanted to create a controversy they just would've refused to sing and not told anyone why until a media shitstorm like this came along, then out would come the 'religious freedom' tale (kind of like the Clock Kid in the USA).
I'm happy to go beyond even the benefit of the doubt here and side firmly with the Muslim kids and their families (based on the assumptions i've made about good faith and religious freedom). |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Do these kids go to a school where they sing the national anthem at assembly? That's pretty rare these days which is a real shame. If they do however, what is the ruling for kids who don't participate? Do they get sent to the principals office? Lines? Yard duty? That's what used to happen to kids being disrespectful at the primary school I went too. And the one my kids went to. I see no difference, no reason to make an allowance for kids who are attending an Australian public government school. They have a choice after all, they don't have to hang around and accept an almost free education afforded them by the Australian people.
Since it's not a matter of a religious no no in their good book, the. No, an allowance should not be made. I don't get why the parents would want that, why they would encourage their kids to highlight their differences, when singing the national anthem at assembly is such a come together, welcome to Australia, we embrace you, please join in, we are one people, thing to do.
Nope, let's just highlight our differences once again. And looky, the Greek kids, even the ones that go to the Orthodox Church every weekend, they are singing, the poms, the Irish, the Maltese (all 50 million of them), the Vietnamese, they are all side by side, singing the national anthem of the country they are lucky enough to live in.
If the kids don't want to join in, fine, they get the same punishment as the naughty Aussie kid trying to get his mates to laugh at the principle.
Or they can say no to the education provided by the tax payers of Australia.
How about Anzac Day? Will they get out of their seats, remove their hats?
I'm a Pom, I don't have citizenship, never felt the need, but I belt out Advance Australia fair, every strange line of it, with puffed out chest, and marching girl shoulders, it brings a tear to my eye every time I do. It's called respect. Just like good manners. It doesn't cost a cent.
It's not for religious reasons. So no, they don't get a pass.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: |
| Morrigu wrote: | | There is nothing better than travel for work or pleasure but there is also nothing better than coming home to Australia - if you ever leave the country and actually experience other cultures and lifestyles you may actually understand this and come to appreciate why patriotic people wish to conserve it!!!! |
Yeah... or, on the other hand, I might never come back! |
And pray tell, what country will you be living in? What country do you see as the one who will appreciate your anti establishment, I'm to good for patriotism, and disdain for the common man, attitude? I suggest Iran or somewhere, I'm sure your missus would love walking around in 45 degrees with a tonne of clothes on. And I can just see your anti government rants going down really well!
Australia is a bloody magnificent place to live. It's still the lucky country. And it pisses me off big time when someone who has never been anywhere else, slams it. You go on and on about how things would be better if we had this countries tax policies, or that countries mental health policies, and yet you've never walked through the exit door at the airport.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
As usual waiting for a tax payer to pay your way
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
You may not get what you want, the reaction to the refugee issue seems to be having a stark impact on European politics, with a shift to the right.
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/refugee-influx-turns-europe-to-the-right-20151030-gknhl6.html
| TheAge wrote: | | France. Opinion polls show that the most supported politician in France is now Marine Le Pen, leader of the National Front, an anti-immigration, anti-Muslim, anti-European Union party. In national provincial elections in March, the National Front polled the second-highest number of votes, 25 per cent, behind the centre-right UMP, with 30 per cent. Their combined vote routed France's socialist parties. Le Pen will seek the presidency in 2017. |
| David wrote: |
BTW, thanks for bringing that up Stui and npalm (welcome to the VPT, by the way, if this is your first time here! ). Obviously a small detail that the Murdoch press forgot to tell us. |
Actually, that detail was quite well covered in the Murdoch press and on commercial FM radio.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
Oh, David, Scandinavia (at least Sweden and Denmark) is a nice place, but I think you'd be bored to tears. Up until recently, it's been a very homogeneous society, with a strong set of shared assumptions that made it work. Probably the opposite of the society I think you want. I don't think its vaunted social model will survive the multicultural Sweden that is coming, because it depended on strong solidarity. But I might be wrong. It'll be an interesting experiment.
By the way, I watched The Wind Will Carry Us (TWWCU) last Saturday. I liked Wadjda, but TWWCU must win the prize for the dullest film ever put through a lens. No character development, no wit, no dramatic tension. Phew ! Did you really like it ?
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Oh, sorry you didn't like it. Kiarostami isn't for everyone - I find his films beautiful and complex, but I understand why you might shrug your shoulders and go "so what?" (I had a similar reaction when I first saw one of his films). They have their own rhythm, just not a particularly fast one. 
Not sure how keen you are on my recommendations after that, but if you want to give Iranian cinema another chance, check out the work of Jafar Panahi or Asghar Farhadi. Unlike Kiarostami's poetic/repetitive style, those two make films that are much more vital and political. Though, similar ultra low budget filming style (it seems to be the dominant form over there).
Glad you liked Wadjda, anyway.
| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
As usual waiting for a tax payer to pay your way |
Top 5 TP misconceptions about me:
1. I don't pay taxes;
2. I'm in training to become a journalist;
3. The 'arthouse' movies I watch are basically just porn (this might explain Mugwump's disappointment );
4. I think that criminals shouldn't be punished, ever;
5. I'm a teenage girl in disguise (ok, so that last one is true).
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | Oh, sorry you didn't like it. Kiarostami isn't for everyone - I find his films beautiful and complex, but I understand why you might shrug your shoulders and go "so what?" (I had a similar reaction when I first saw one of his films). They have their own rhythm, just not a particularly fast one.
Not sure how keen you are on my recommendations after that, but if you want to give Iranian cinema another chance, check out the work of Jafar Panahi or Asghar Farhadi. Unlike Kiarostami's poetic/repetitive style, those two make films that are much more vital and political. Though, similar ultra low budget filming style (it seems to be the dominant form over there).
Glad you liked Wadjda, anyway.
| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
As usual waiting for a tax payer to pay your way |
Top 5 TP misconceptions about me:
1. I don't pay taxes;
2. I'm in training to become a journalist;
3. The 'arthouse' movies I watch are basically just porn (this might explain Mugwump's disappointment );
4. I think that criminals shouldn't be punished, ever;
5. I'm a teenage girl in disguise (ok, so that last one is true).
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cmon now, ive met you, one of the few guys i have bigger tits than!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | I would love to visit Iran. It seems like a beautiful country, with such a rich culture and history. My dream is to live in Scandinavia, though.
In any case, I really don't think I need to see the Louvre or spend a week in a Thai resort to have an opinion on Australian social policy. But if you're offering a plane ticket to France, I'll take it. |
Me too I think Iran would be fantastic to visit - closest we got was a couple of weeks in Jordan which was bloody fantastic - many years ago now!
Hmmm Scandinavia eh - it was " nice" - genuinely curious - what on earth appeals to you to have it as a dream place to live???? ( off topic I know but you raised it so ... )
😀😀😀 despite numerous visits I have never been inside the Louvre - boring +++++ - rather stab myself in the eye with a blunt pencil - actually add a Thai resort to that as well.
No you don't NEED to have travelled ( travelled is not a Contiki tour or a week pissed in Bali IMHO) to have an opinion but it does give you a lived experience that challenges and broadens the unilateral cultural experience of not having done so and makes you appreciate the life and opportunities we have in Australia - just my opinion!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Sounds like we agree on a lot - if and when I travel, I do want it to be a meaningful experience, not just following a herd of tourists around from one attraction to another.
As for Scandinavia, I've long loved the culture and art of Sweden, Norway, Iceland and so on. My son's name is testament to that. It just seems like a great part of the world; not too much hot weather and a more progressive, social democratic political discourse (though a more active far right, too, on the downside).
(Apologies all for derailing the thread - worst mod ever.  )
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ fair enough - time will tell but I reckon you will be mighty disappointed - bland as buggary
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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"soon... er, as soon as we can think of a way to claim it".
I think this is probably one of Putin's objectives in intervening in Syria in the fist place. From Chechnya, to Georgia, to the Ukraine, and now the Middle East, he has always consolidated his power based on his he-man credentials by provoking terrorist atrocities against Russians, then baring his credentials as the military hard man. He needed a boost with a Russian economy on its back through a low oil price and sanctions, so he's brought out the same old script.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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