 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
I think there's a fine line. If you're literally intimidating them, like, giving the impression that you're going to punch their head in if they say another word, then that's a censorship of sorts.
If you're standing on another side of a barricade yelling slogans as they yell slogans at you, then you're both just exercising your freedom of speech.
So, yes, there's a fine line there, and some of the socialists may have crossed it, but I totally disagree that there's anything wrong with holding a counter-protest on the same day.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
 |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | | It's just useful feedback for them to know that their views aren't universally shared, surely? |
Planting your tongue too firmly in your cheek can have serious health consequences. Please be careful. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | The left despises free speech, oh sure they make all the right noises, right up until someone disagrees with them and their views or even worse openly mocks and belittles them.
Then its a matter of rouse the mob and smash the dissenters, hunt them down online, get them fired and if the numbers are right then assault them. "Anti-fascists" are the real fascists. |
There are censorious types on both sides of politics, so it's hardly accurate to say that "the left despises free speech". I would certainly like to see a greater commitment to it at times from progressive groups and individuals, but there is at least a sizeable contingent on the left who are passionate about free speech and take Voltaire's maxim to heart.
There are few conservatives, on the other hand, whose professed love of free speech is sincere. Consider our government and its cheerleaders, for instance: one minute it's "repeal 18C", the next they're pursuing whistleblowers, contemplating banning Hizb-ut-Tahrir, and the silence on the right is deafening.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | The left despises free speech, oh sure they make all the right noises, right up until someone disagrees with them and their views or even worse openly mocks and belittles them.
Then its a matter of rouse the mob and smash the dissenters, hunt them down online, get them fired and if the numbers are right then assault them. "Anti-fascists" are the real fascists. |
I'm sensing you've had this discussion before.  
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: |
So you're agreeing with the idea that it's OK to deliberately organise a counter protest to disrupt a protest that you disagree with, which is basically censorship.
Cheers mate. |
That's right!
Reclaim Australia has a point of view and wanted to demonstrate it publicly.
The other side turned up to demonstrate to the demonstrators that not everyone agrees with them.
Which side I support is irrelevant.
This is free speech at it's best!
Pssst, Reclaimation Aussie oi oi oi, or what-ever your name is this time!
... This how you hold a racism demo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u718im5QOc |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 3.14159 wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: |
So you're agreeing with the idea that it's OK to deliberately organise a counter protest to disrupt a protest that you disagree with, which is basically censorship.
Cheers mate. |
That's right!
Reclaim Australia has a point of view and wanted to demonstrate it publicly.
The other side turned up to demonstrate to the demonstrators that not everyone agrees with them.
Which side I support is irrelevant.
This is free speech at it's best!
Pssst, Reclaimation Aussie oi oi oi, or what-ever your name is this time!
... This how you hold a racism demo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u718im5QOc |
No, it's not free speech at it's best. It's deliberate intimidation and censorship.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
We're the rallies cancelled? Were the protestors unable to protest? Did they face physical or legal repercussions for protesting?
I really think you need to define what you mean by "censorship" here.
Freedom of speech is not the freedom to say whatever you like while everyone else sits around politely and listens.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | We're the rallies cancelled? Were the protestors unable to protest? Did they face physical or legal repercussions for protesting?
I really think you need to define what you mean by "censorship" here.
Freedom of speech is not the freedom to say whatever you like while everyone else sits around politely and listens. |
Please keep this in memory next time we have an organised protest.
So. If you organised a pro muslim rally and got a lot of like minded people involved to do a march and a group of people who had the opposite view decided to set up a march on the same time, same day, got 3 times as many people and actively intimidated your group raining abuse down from a great height and utterly buried the message you were hoping to get across beneath a field of dross, is that censorship or democracy?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
It's freedom of speech. If some of that "abuse" caused people to genuinely feel unsafe, then those instances of abuse might constitute a criminal act. But it's not censorship.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I disagree,
The intent from the outset is to stifle the other opinion, the means chosen to do that was a counter protest,
If that's not censorship, it's something evil in it's own right that's just as bad,
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
|
| Post subject: | |
|
This has been a common problem in Europe in places like the UK for example between the English Defence League (EDL) and "Anti-Fascist" groups so what we saw yesterday in Melbourne isn't a common problem in contrast to Europe but is this a sign of things to come?
I actually understand where Stui is coming from and even though I hardly endorse the views of the left or groups that claim to be "Anti-Fascist" which is just code for categorising anyone who doesn't approve or support the far-left's socialist agenda I do think counter-protesting is a form of free speech, however it may overstep the mark if counter-protestors begin intimidating, threatening and harassing the current protestors for voicing their opinions. If it's all peaceful and the message is loud and clear from both sides without resorting to violence and threats then I don't see a problem to be honest.
However Stui isn't wrong to voice his concerns that counter-protesting could be depicted as being as a form of hindering one's free speech especially if it's designed to disrupt rather than actually promote an opposing message against another group even though they will grant them the right to voice their concerns due to the fact that this is protected under free speech.
I see both sides in this situation however the problem with "Anti-Fascist" groups is that by continually undermining the protest of an opposing view such as those holding Anti-Islamism sentiments they are only feeding further support for that group indirectly. It's no different to the way people alienate certain communities which leads to further and increased extremism from fundamentalist groups. Both sides need to be careful to not allow this to happen.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | I disagree,
The intent from the outset is to stifle the other opinion, the means chosen to do that was a counter protest,
If that's not censorship, it's something evil in it's own right that's just as bad, |
Rather than devoting all your criticism to the people doing the "censoring", why not look at the reasons for the counter-protest in the first place?
This "Reclaim Australia" march was embarrassing rubbish, motivated by the fear whipped up by political opportunists and ignorant concerns about Halal certification and "Sharia Law". WTF were they even protesting about? What exactly is going so wrong in Australia that we need to "reclaim" it?
I think the skinheads summed it up best:
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/03/anti-islamic-group-reclaim-australia-plans-16-rallies-across-the-country
| Quote: | The event has been promoted on American white nationalist websites. A post on the Daily Stormer website encouraged “White Australian men” to attend, saying “the people that you’ll find at Reclaim Australia are very valuable to us in the long term”.
“They’re on the right track and, with our guidance, they can be turned into hardcore Nazis,” it said. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
|
| Post subject: | |
|
What a politically- correct, nanny-state brouhaha.
Hold a rally but if some other group turns up who oppose you its censorship.
If you hold a rally you should expect opposition - this is Australia!
What's the alternative? Get your rally permit application done on time and submitted with your time, place, number of attendees all registered. Fence off the area as heaven forbid someone else may drop by and make some noise. Confiscate all signs & banners that don't fit the permit. Blah blah.
Politically correct bureaucratically approved homogenised rallies only please! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: |
This "Reclaim Australia" march was embarrassing rubbish, |
Quite probably was, i said at the start I hadn't looked into it as that wasn't relevant.
FWIW I thought the Occupy movement was embarrassing rubbish too, yet many of the same people who deliberately set out to disrupt the Reclaim Australia rally bleat like stuck pigs whenever the fascist authorities pull them into line.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
