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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I actually watched it all the way through.
Despite taking a sledgehammer approach, she's actually not wrong with most of what she says.
Made me think of Whitty and Big Dan, both who have lost a metric shitpile of weight, not for vanity reasons but for health reasons and both had a version of lapband surgery to help stop their massive over eating.
I saw Dan at the footy a few months back, he's half the man he used to be and looking great for it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | I truly believe allowing your kids to get obese is child abuse.
From a young age, Lead by example, have the right food choices at home, have the right ratio of feel good foods at home. Do not use food as a baby sitter, or soother, and not all the time as a reward.
When it's age appropriate, Teach your children why too much fat is bad for them, why too much sugar is bad for them. Explain that extra weight causes unnecessary stress on joints, and vital organs.
I'm not going to say any more, cos I still remember the caning I got from someone the last time this subject came up! |
^ This.
If you sexually abuse a child, it's very, very bad. But that child can recover. If there is no physical damage, they can still have a decent life. There is, in short, genuine hope for the victim.
If you fatten your child into obesity, not only have you shortened his or her life by decades, you have ruined almost every part of childhood, and of his or her life through adulthood as well. Obesity impacts on every part of life - sport, dating, friendships, peer esteem, bullying, relationships, career success, the lot.
His or her chances of recovery are poor. Yes, some people recover from obesity (with effort, determination, counseling, and often even surgery), but not many. Most are condemned to a third-rate life, and it is a whole-of-life sentence. I've never seen figures on this, but I'd bet money that a higher percentage of sexually abused children recover than obese children. Even for those who don't, at least their issues are not on display 24/7 for the whole world to see and criticise. They have some privacy that obese children never, ever get.
Put it this way: I have not suffered from either form of abuse. But if I had to choose one or the other, there is absolutely no way in Hell I'd choose to be obese. I could recover from the other, learn to deal with it and move on. With my body wrecked by childhood obesity, I'd be buggered: no hope, no future, no point in even living.
Draconian penalties are not the way forward with most problems. You need to work with people, not just wave a big stick. I know that. But when I see parents of fat little monsters in Macdonalds, and they are stuffing them full of even more fat and sugar ... you know what?
I'd jail the bastards.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Tannin wrote: | | Obesity impacts on every part of life - sport, dating, friendships, peer esteem, bullying, relationships, career success, the lot. |
In six of those seven categories, the negative effects are mostly the result of social prejudice and discrimination. There's no reason to think that that prejudice is inviolable; so, do we get angry at parents* for condemning their child to a life of being bullied, or do we fight back against the bullies? I know which path I would choose.
(Of course, some might justifiably make the case that deliberately making your child obese is a form of abuse for the health effects alone and should be punished accordingly. But the sad fact here is that virtually no parent does this; obese children are more often than not a reflection of the parents' own poor socioeconomic background and limited life choices. As a parent, I see this even more clearly now than I did before.)
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | I truly believe allowing your kids to get obese is child abuse.
From a young age, Lead by example, have the right food choices at home, have the right ratio of feel good foods at home. Do not use food as a baby sitter, or soother, and not all the time as a reward.
When it's age appropriate, Teach your children why too much fat is bad for them, why too much sugar is bad for them. Explain that extra weight causes unnecessary stress on joints, and vital organs.
I'm not going to say any more, cos I still remember the caning I got from someone the last time this subject came up! |
^ This.
If you sexually abuse a child, it's very, very bad. But that child can recover. If there is no physical damage, they can still have a decent life. There is, in short, genuine hope for the victim.
If you fatten your child into obesity, not only have you shortened his or her life by decades, you have ruined almost every part of childhood, and of his or her life through adulthood as well. Obesity impacts on every part of life - sport, dating, friendships, peer esteem, bullying, relationships, career success, the lot.
His or her chances of recovery are poor. Yes, some people recover from obesity (with effort, determination, counseling, and often even surgery), but not many. Most are condemned to a third-rate life, and it is a whole-of-life sentence. I've never seen figures on this, but I'd bet money that a higher percentage of sexually abused children recover than obese children. Even for those who don't, at least their issues are not on display 24/7 for the whole world to see and criticise. They have some privacy that obese children never, ever get.
Put it this way: I have not suffered from either form of abuse. But if I had to choose one or the other, there is absolutely no way in Hell I'd choose to be obese. I could recover from the other, learn to deal with it and move on. With my body wrecked by childhood obesity, I'd be buggered: no hope, no future, no point in even living.
Draconian penalties are not the way forward with most problems. You need to work with people, not just wave a big stick. I know that. But when I see parents of fat little monsters in Macdonalds, and they are stuffing them full of even more fat and sugar ... you know what?
I'd jail the bastards. |
Great post for the most part. Don't totally agree on the sexual abuse though. There are some really horrific stories out there of kids suffering that I would not wish on my worst enemy. I don't think you can compare the two in any way. It's a different kind of suffering.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | Obesity impacts on every part of life - sport, dating, friendships, peer esteem, bullying, relationships, career success, the lot. |
In six of those seven categories, the negative effects are mostly the result of social prejudice and discrimination. There's no reason to think that that prejudice is inviolable; so, do we get angry at parents* for condemning their child to a life of being bullied, or do we fight back against the bullies? I know which path I would choose.
(Of course, some might justifiably make the case that deliberately making your child obese is a form of abuse for the health effects alone and should be punished accordingly. But the sad fact here is that virtually no parent does this; obese children are more often than not a reflection of the parents' own poor socioeconomic background and limited life choices. As a parent, I see this even more clearly now than I did before.) |
Yes prejudice and bullying are certainly a bad side effect of being obese. And certainly parents should stand up against bullying and prejudice.
However that's where my agreement ends. I actually did meet a mother when I had my clothing business whose kids were both extremely obese, and she was upset that I didn't have any size 12 kids clothes that would fit her 8 year old. How do you explain that 8 year old should not be as round as an overweight 20 year old? This kid was close to 100kg. And she said to me carrying a bit of extra weight is good, because if they get sick they have something to fall back on. This kids fat could have fed a village for a month. I wonder, the kids would be in their twenties now, are they still overweight? What is their self esteem like? More importantly what is their blood pressure? Their cholesterol level? The list of detriment to their health is endless, beginning with heart disease all the way down to worn out joints before they are thirty.
I have a niece who is obese, and I remember her mum saying she didn't want to take her to a nutritionist as she might become self concious about her body. The kid is 20, she has no confidence, she's miserable, unhealthy, she can't join in with her friends, at the pool, the disco, she is self concious when she eats. Who's fault is that? Who let her eat herself to death? It's no life.
I'm not talking five kg over weight, or even 10. I'm talking 20-30kg. That is life threatening. And yes, parents should be held as accountable as those who drink and hit their kids, who fill the house and car with cigarette smoke and potentially give their kids cancer. It's a parents job to look after the well being of their child. Allowing out of control eating habits is not doing their job, it's lazy parenting. And yes I do know how hard it is. One of my kids wanted to eat nothing but nuggets, chips and sweet stuff from the age of about 4 til about 10! I made her sit at the table, no telly, and eat proper food. I made healthy chips. I made healthy desserts. Like everything in life it takes effort. It take priorities.
And another thing. Prejudice when it comes to employment. Obesity effects every part of your life. Your energy levels, how often you get sick, how fast you can move, if you can even climb a flight of stairs. Is it prejudice to choose the person closer to a normal weight range over an obese person? Or is it the sensible thing to do?
And just to be clear, I'm talking obesity, not fat, not dumpy, not 10kg (although for a young child of say 5, that's probably bordering obesity) I'm talking severely overweight.
I don't look down on obese people. No matter how this comes across. I just have sympathy that they cannot live their lives to the full. Experience the joy of free movement without pain. And yes, of walking in a shop, and with a little help from our friends at spanx, feel like a million bucks in an outfit.
I have an extended family full of health problems right now. No I don't know that their indulgent lifestyles caused all the cancers. But I can tell you quite confidently that it sure as hell didn't help. Moderation is the key.
The bit about their own life experiences, I don't get that. To me you change your behaviour so your kids don't have the same negative life experiences you may have had as a child.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | It's a parents job to look after the well being of their child. Allowing out of control eating habits is not doing their job, it's lazy parenting. And yes I do know how hard it is. One of my kids wanted to eat nothing but nuggets, chips and sweet stuff from the age of about 4 til about 10! I made her sit at the table, no telly, and eat proper food. I made healthy chips. I made healthy desserts. Like everything in life it takes effort. It take priorities. |
Let's look at this more closely, because I think this is useful. In this case, you were able to overcome this problem because you had a strategy and the patience and self-discipline to implement it. But let's say you're a single mother who has worked all day and doesn't have the energy to have a stand off with their child. Or you have depression and can barely look after yourself. Or if you are obese yourself and never learned how to eat healthily. If you're in one of those situations and your child only wants to eat nuggets, chips and ice cream, you may not have the willpower to fight that battle and win it. You may put your child in front of the TV because you're out of ideas – I've been there.
If we want to reduce childhood obesity rates, the solution isn't to punish already marginalised people; it's to give those parents more options and support. It's as simple as that, I think.
Regarding employment, I don't think it should be lawful at all to discriminate against someone because of their weight unless there are clear requirements of the job that they will be unable to fulfill. That kind of discrimination does make people's lives worse in the kinds of ways Tannin lists, and if we're genuinely concerned about such people's quality of life, then let's start with the stuff we can control: how we treat obese or overweight people or allow them to be treated.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | It's a parents job to look after the well being of their child. Allowing out of control eating habits is not doing their job, it's lazy parenting. And yes I do know how hard it is. One of my kids wanted to eat nothing but nuggets, chips and sweet stuff from the age of about 4 til about 10! I made her sit at the table, no telly, and eat proper food. I made healthy chips. I made healthy desserts. Like everything in life it takes effort. It take priorities. |
Let's look at this more closely, because I think this is useful. In this case, you were able to overcome this problem because you had a strategy and the patience and self-discipline to implement it. But let's say you're a single mother who has worked all day and doesn't have the energy to have a stand off with their child. Or you have depression and can barely look after yourself. Or if you are obese yourself and never learned how to eat healthily. If you're in one of those situations and your child only wants to eat nuggets, chips and ice cream, you may not have the willpower to fight that battle and win it. You may put your child in front of the TV because you're out of ideas – I've been there.
If we want to reduce childhood obesity rates, the solution isn't to punish already marginalised people; it's to give those parents more options and support. It's as simple as that, I think.
Regarding employment, I don't think it should be lawful at all to discriminate against someone because of their weight unless there are clear requirements of the job that they will be unable to fulfill. That kind of discrimination does make people's lives worse in the kinds of ways Tannin lists, and if we're genuinely concerned about such people's quality of life, then let's start with the stuff we can control: how we treat obese or overweight people or allow them to be treated. |
Of course there is exceptions, and that tired mother can sometimes get away with that, we have all done it, Maccas and a movie when you just can't lift another finger, but that's not every day. If it becomes every day, then something needs to change. And the sheer numbers of obese children means we cannot excuse everyone, because however many may have it against them. And it's not as simple as more help and support. Give people the tools, give education, but some people just sit and wait for help. All the mod cons all the instant entertainment means kids don't play enough, don't know how to get natural exercise.
As for employment, you can't stop discrimination, it's there in every form, wether looks, the school you attended, your accent, humans choose the person for the job, and humans all have different ideas of what is suitable. And if I need someone to stand by the door, and occasionally chase after a potential thief, I'm not picking the the person who puffed walking from th elevator. I have a business to run, and I'm entitled to choose the best, most suitable candidate. Just like I'm not picking someone with chronic back problems to sit hunched over a PC all day!
That's not discrimination, it's not even human nature, it's common sense
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm not weighing into this argument too much (pun intended) but one thing I'll throw in is we need to be careful with the term "obese"
We know what we mean when we say it, and people generally use it to describe someone seriously overweight, but the clinical definitions are a bit different to general usage.
The Body Mass Index (BMI) is for mine a crock of shite.
For my height, (191cm) the suggested weight is 67-90kg, so at 96kg I'm overweight. Now I'm carrying a bit of a gut and I am overweight, but FFS I'm 51, drive a desk for a living and by the time I get home from work 12 hours after I woke up, I'm really not feeling like exercising. 70kg at my age and height I'd look like a newly released POW from Changi.
If your weight and/or fitness level prevents you from being able to do physical activity that you should be able to do at your age, do something about it because you're too fat or too unfit or both.
You see the fat kids and you can see that they can't play with the others their age, not because they're picked on for being fat but because they physically can't do it. If they're a large kid, but can physically compete they don't get picked on
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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