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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| roar wrote: | | neil wrote: | Drop a player due to a poor performance in a glorified training match
Over reaction much |
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Not saying I agree with the premise but to be fair to the OP, Toovey's kicking skills have been an issue for quite a while now. |
Yep and I've had my doubts about brown for over a year. His body is toast, he's too fragile, and now, too slow. The youth are really exciting me this preseason thankfully, but they will still need the old guard a while yet. Hopefully that transitions into Keene and frost by mid year stepping up into the backline leadership spots.
Over the Cloke excuses too. It's not just about him getting the ball. There is no way in hell he should have missed that shot yesterday, 45 out slight angle, practice match no pressure. For (mates with) sake get him a kicking coach. Cos I still close my eyes when he's got the ball, even from the square!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| roar wrote: | | Broomhead, Scharenberg, Langdon, DeGoey, Maynard, Abbott and Manteit we're all drafted as players with superior foot skills. Even Kennedy and Ramsay were said to be good users by foot, so you can't say it hasn't been a focus. |
I believe Ramsey had other qualities than his kicking skills that captured the imagination of the recruiting department.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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We have drafted for kicking skills but as yet they haven't filtered through the system due to a variety of factors - mostly beyond our control.
Realiy, really premature OP. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Silly me, i thought practice matches were for just that ... practice.
Im sure the Pies brains trust realise we have a few holes in the skill area.
There is a re build going on and it involves remaining competitive while still introducing quality players into the team and slowly weeding out those with poor foot skills. Its certainly happening, its just not going to happen in a season. |
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Podpicken 
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
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Oh for fs, delete this mods. Shit.
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Billy Picken, the great No. 25 in the sky! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Toovey needs to play at elite intensity (which he normally does) to negate his less than average kicking skills. Why would you expect Toovey to play at his normal intensity levels in NAB2? So comments about Toovey should be reserved when the season prper starts. N. Brown is in the side to negate the power forwards and has demonstrated his ability to shut down these type of players in the past. He shouldn't be judged on performances when he has just returned from injury. Players build momentum over a number of games, so again, judgement should be reserved until then. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Get the great ol ex Pie Thorold Merrett out to show the boys how to kick, the master of the stab pass. Even the great Jack Dyer said decades ago, "this kid at Collingwood can stab kick a ball up a chooks arse at fifty yards. ". Reckon Merrett would still be better at kicking accuracy than a lot of players even now, even at his advanced age. !
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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hermerl
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Hard decisions have to be made | |
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| hermerl wrote: | | First rule to be adhered too is if your disposal is poor you do not play, So Alan Toovey needs to be replaced in our best 22, I know a lot of supporters will be horrified and I know he is one of our best one on one players but he is our worst kick, if you beat your opponent and give it straight back to the opposition it is pointless, Hawthorn would not have him in their side. I would also replace N Brown I know everyone says we need someone to play on the gorillas but he gets beaten far to often in one on one marking contests inside fifty and his kicking is also poor, he gives us no drive out of the backline at all, when frost Keefe and Reid are back I think we are far better of with them. |
This idea was not based on one NAB cup game, football has changed and kicking skills are now paramount, I attended the reserves game this week against Geelong and the difference between the kicking skill was unbelievable we cannot carry players with poor skills if we want to climb the ladder |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| roar wrote: | | Broomhead, Scharenberg, Langdon, DeGoey, Maynard, Abbott and Manteit we're all drafted as players with superior foot skills. Even Kennedy and Ramsay were said to be good users by foot, so you can't say it hasn't been a focus. |
Broomhead and Langdon are not elite kicks.
A number of our trades lately have inferior foot skills.
As Hawthorn have demonstrated - consistent picks over a
number of years who can kick has paid dividends for them.
It is obvious Bucks has got the best deals possible over the
last few years. But superior kicking of each trade pick was not a really
high priority.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Hard decisions have to be made | |
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| hermerl wrote: | | hermerl wrote: | | First rule to be adhered too is if your disposal is poor you do not play, So Alan Toovey needs to be replaced in our best 22, I know a lot of supporters will be horrified and I know he is one of our best one on one players but he is our worst kick, if you beat your opponent and give it straight back to the opposition it is pointless, Hawthorn would not have him in their side. I would also replace N Brown I know everyone says we need someone to play on the gorillas but he gets beaten far to often in one on one marking contests inside fifty and his kicking is also poor, he gives us no drive out of the backline at all, when frost Keefe and Reid are back I think we are far better of with them. |
This idea was not based on one NAB cup game, football has changed and kicking skills are now paramount, I attended the reserves game this week against Geelong and the difference between the kicking skill was unbelievable we cannot carry players with poor skills if we want to climb the ladder |
who of the afl listed guys down at geelong did you think was not up to scratch?
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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uncanny
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine
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I think we need to give Browny and Tooves a bit more time and hopefully we can build the backline around them I say
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | Toovey needs to play at elite intensity (which he normally does) to negate his less than average kicking skills. Why would you expect Toovey to play at his normal intensity levels in NAB2? So comments about Toovey should be reserved when the season prper starts. N. Brown is in the side to negate the power forwards and has demonstrated his ability to shut down these type of players in the past. He shouldn't be judged on performances when he has just returned from injury. Players build momentum over a number of games, so again, judgement should be reserved until then. |
Great points well put.
Nevertheless, I have to admit to a difference in gut feeling when the ball comes in long to our defensive goal and the talls go at it. With Brown at full-back, I hope a little bit and fear a lot. With Frost down there, I fear a little bit and hope with confidence. I expect a successful spoil from Frostie.
These days, it isn't about classic one-on-one duels between monster FF and stoic full back. Those were great days, and I loved watching Wakes and Presti in action every time they played, but those days are (mostly) gone. These days, most sides have three or four or even five talls and tall-medium types rotating through the forward 50 and it's not enough to take one key out. You have to have the mobility and the overhead reach to get to the right part of the contest and make the spoil - quite possibly you are leaving your man and preventing a mark by the opposition ruckman or a tall utility.
Brown has been out of the game a long time and I'm not sure that he has the attributes to adapt to the new style of play. Reid does it brilliantly but he is never fit. Nick Maxwell used to play the third man up role superbly - better than a lot of people realised, to the point where maybe we didn't really notice how much the game has changed because Maxy covered the gap and made our old-style key defenders look good. Langdon is trying to learn the Maxy role and doing OK, Scharenberg and Oxley are certainly prospects for it too, but all thee are probably an inch or two shy of the height you'd really want them to be.
Frost, on the other hand, has that extra jump and ability to find a way to make the contest and kill the ball. Many here don't like Keeffe as a defender, but I still reckon he is worth sticking with too, for the same reasons.
Once the ball hits the ground, however, neither Frost not Keeffe has the sure ball handling skills and in-traffic nous that Brown has.
Summary: with the ball in the air coming into our defensive goal, I want to see Frost's agility. With the ball on the ground in our defensive goal area, I want to see Brown's cool head and neat handball to advantage.
So what am I actually asking for here? Not sure. Just thinking aloud.
One last thought: Alan Toovey's pace, ability to play tall or small, and fantastic attack on the ball has been a life saver for us many times over. No reason why that won't be as true this year as it has been in previous years. Yep, his kicking is suspect, but I wouldn't be replacing him with an Oxley or a Scharenberg or a Langdon until the replacement can do the things that Tooves does as well as kick better.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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Frost would be our worst kick after Cox. Although I haven't seen Cox kick yet.
But don't let that get in your way of your justification. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| melliot wrote: | Frost would be our worst kick after Cox. Although I haven't seen Cox kick yet.
But don't let that get in your way of your justification. |
Marsh is our worst kick, and that includes Cox, he can literally miss the ball with his foot.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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| roar wrote: | | Broomhead, Scharenberg, Langdon, DeGoey, Maynard, Abbott and Manteit we're all drafted as players with superior foot skills. Even Kennedy and Ramsay were said to be good users by foot, so you can't say it hasn't been a focus. |
This. I think it has been a clear focus. Not sure Ramsay ever qualified but clearly Scharenberg and de Goey are elite by foot with the remainder having some good skills.
Concern is more the Crisp's and Greenwood who have been brought in mature age and are clearly deficient. Add them to Toovey, Adams (more decision making than actually a techinical deficiency) et alia and in general we have poor efficiency by foot. Our No 16 ranking in the league last year demonstrates we have a fair bit of work to do.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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