Phil Carman
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | That argument is so misconceived, I am not going to waste time on it. Suffice it to say that as an hypothetical, it's just nonsense. |
Truth is we'll never know, but having your most quixotic player missing in an age when individuals mattered more than they do today almost certainly didn't help. It was an act of incredible indiscipline, one among many that chequered what might have been a great career.
Carman was capable of winning a game off his own boot, or going headhunting and not getting a kick. Who knows which Phil Carman would have turned up that day.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| thompsoc wrote: | | Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us. |
You could just as easily blame Kink for being so unfit that he couldn't do anything for us in the last quarter. Ultimately, we lost that GF - and a few others along the way - because of a lack of professionalism at our club at that time. Carman's act of stupidity was symptomatic, but not the sole cause, of our unprofessionalism which robbed us of multiple premiership successes in the 70s. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | That argument is so misconceived, I am not going to waste time on it. Suffice it to say that as an hypothetical, it's just nonsense. |
ah well, to quote jack Nicholson, you obviously cant handle the truth. 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us. |
You could just as easily blame Kink for being so unfit that he couldn't do anything for us in the last quarter. Ultimately, we lost that GF - and a few others along the way - because of a lack of professionalism at our club at that time. Carman's act of stupidity was symptomatic, but not the sole cause, of our unprofessionalism which robbed us of multiple premiership successes in the 70s. |
I don't think Phabulous was blameless - I do think the scapegoating is entirely unnecessary and I wouldn't single-out Kink for special criticism, either. The fact is that team was so far ahead at three-quarter time that North should never have got back into the game. The greatest winning last-quarter comeback was from a 23-point deficit at three-quarter time (1984). Collingwood led this one by 27 points - and against a team that had only kicked 4 goals all day (and none in the previous hour). Carman had, of course, won them the week off after the second semi with his four-goal display at CHF (in a two-point win). Thus, for me, the question has always been how did they fall away so badly in that last quarter, when they should (all) have had the fresher legs? |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us. |
You could just as easily blame Kink for being so unfit that he couldn't do anything for us in the last quarter. Ultimately, we lost that GF - and a few others along the way - because of a lack of professionalism at our club at that time. Carman's act of stupidity was symptomatic, but not the sole cause, of our unprofessionalism which robbed us of multiple premiership successes in the 70s. |
I don't think Phabulous was blameless - I do think the scapegoating is entirely unnecessary and I wouldn't single-out Kink for special criticism, either. The fact is that team was so far ahead at three-quarter time that North should never have got back into the game. The greatest winning last-quarter comeback was from a 23-point deficit at three-quarter time (1984). Collingwood led this one by 27 points - and against a team that had only kicked 4 goals all day (and none in the previous hour). Carman had, of course, won them the week off after the second semi with his four-goal display at CHF (in a two-point win). Thus, for me, the question has always been how did they fall away so badly in that last quarter, when they should (all) have had the fresher legs? |
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Nothing was as bad as 1970 GF, over seven goals up at half time, and we blew it, coached again by that friggin bastard barassi, who took the 77 Flag off us too, he is still the Pies main public enemy No 1 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us. |
You could just as easily blame Kink for being so unfit that he couldn't do anything for us in the last quarter. Ultimately, we lost that GF - and a few others along the way - because of a lack of professionalism at our club at that time. Carman's act of stupidity was symptomatic, but not the sole cause, of our unprofessionalism which robbed us of multiple premiership successes in the 70s. |
I don't think Phabulous was blameless - I do think the scapegoating is entirely unnecessary and I wouldn't single-out Kink for special criticism, either. The fact is that team was so far ahead at three-quarter time that North should never have got back into the game. The greatest winning last-quarter comeback was from a 23-point deficit at three-quarter time (1984). Collingwood led this one by 27 points - and against a team that had only kicked 4 goals all day (and none in the previous hour). Carman had, of course, won them the week off after the second semi with his four-goal display at CHF (in a two-point win). Thus, for me, the question has always been how did they fall away so badly in that last quarter, when they should (all) have had the fresher legs? |
]
Nothing was as bad as 1970 GF, over seven goals up at half time, and we blew it, coached again by that friggin bastard barassi, who took the 77 Flag off us too, he is still the Pies main public enemy No 1
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Try to rephrase your question with simpler words. |
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Hiss 
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: What | |
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | Norf would have needed 2 players to tag Carman GF day. So even if he didn't get a kick he would have been a positive for us. |
You could just as easily blame Kink for being so unfit that he couldn't do anything for us in the last quarter. Ultimately, we lost that GF - and a few others along the way - because of a lack of professionalism at our club at that time. Carman's act of stupidity was symptomatic, but not the sole cause, of our unprofessionalism which robbed us of multiple premiership successes in the 70s. |
I don't think Phabulous was blameless - I do think the scapegoating is entirely unnecessary and I wouldn't single-out Kink for special criticism, either. The fact is that team was so far ahead at three-quarter time that North should never have got back into the game. The greatest winning last-quarter comeback was from a 23-point deficit at three-quarter time (1984). Collingwood led this one by 27 points - and against a team that had only kicked 4 goals all day (and none in the previous hour). Carman had, of course, won them the week off after the second semi with his four-goal display at CHF (in a two-point win). Thus, for me, the question has always been how did they fall away so badly in that last quarter, when they should (all) have had the fresher legs? |
]
Nothing was as bad as 1970 GF, over seven goals up at half time, and we blew it, coached again by that friggin bastard barassi, who took the 77 Flag off us too, he is still the Pies main public enemy No 1 |
You blame RDB for us loosing in 70 and 77 then also blame Carman as well in 77. I was at the 77 GF and observed some shocking efforts in the second half with clearances out of the centre. It is ridiculous to suggest a CHF like Carman could have sone anything to stop our centre clearance issue. It made no difference him not being there, so you should sod off and stop blaming him you silly old goat.
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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