Trade Cloke and Brown

[sem]

i am 67 years old and have been a one eyed supporter since 1953. and i go to all matches and i look at the game and the players and the tactics and the fitness .

In my Previous entry here in topic called "ROUND 1 TEAM" I wrote about my dream team for the first round and my part there was dated FEB 19 @ 3:02 PM

Some of my predictions worked against Hawks

Two players I left out of my DREAM TEAM were Brown and Cloke .

My thoughts are not meant to be destabilising and I have fully thought them out .

i do not know these two personally nor their families .
What i do know is i would like them not to play again .
They do not maintain a high standard against top teams .

BROWN i believe for the amount of games he has played , very few have been above the standard for a Backman in a top team .

He has ability to match it only against low teams , so having said that he played an outstanding game against St .KILDA when it counted in the final series we won and i acknowledge that but blue moons do NOT happen often .

He is a big man tall and has strength but they are not used .

He is very slow in movement / speed .

he is very slow in thought so takes too long to makes decisions

He does not use his strength in the contest even in the Nab match he was easily pushed aside in packs .
He tried to punch the ball away and never connected and his opposition player always got the ball .
In the rooms after the game you see BUCKS standing next to him gesturing to punch the ball / not a good look for a player who is not playing under 10,s football .

He cannot kick the ball out .

He does not use his physical strength in the tackle.

He has a history of shoulder injuries .

i know he was selected to the leadership role so maybe he is a good guy and respected , however i only look at the best player for a position and he is not there .

Yes he has had injuries , however , that will not lead to better year for him .
i hope he is not given games just because he is a good guy liked by many .
i find no positives and i have seen him play most of his games .

i believe he is a VFL player at best .

CLOKE the best pack mark playing .
So what if he does not do anything else.
He costs COLLINGWOOD at least 5 goals a match .
he is not a hero if he kicks 5 goals and only 3 other players have been given a chance to kick 4 more .

The tactic is to go through Cloke into the forward line .

So he wants the forward line around him open / empty so it is easier for him to outplay his opponent into the forward line so he can take one of his 10 marks a match . So why is Fas and Elliot not allowed to be next to him to take the dropped ball or be there as other options in the forward line to mark and kick goals , GEE THEY ARE GOOD AT GETTING GOALS and what about all the others that have been told to kick it to Cloke At least another 3to 4 goals a match .

He is a sub standard kick for goals no matter how much he tries to improve .At least 2 goals a match .

He leads to positions on the field where even the great full forwards of the past would never go to SO at least 2/3 times deep into the forward pocket to try and kick the impossible goal . HE should pass the ball to a player in a better position . NEVER DOES , so benefit of the doubt say 1 goal per game .

Against top teams he gets beaten badly and as the ball goes through him it really limits COLLINGWOOD'S chances to win as he gets double teamed as the opposition know the tactic . so maybe 3 more goals .


Total of goals 9 SO if only 5 good enough to go into the 8 or even top 4 .

Yes there are a a few and many not given the responsibility to kick goals .


i know last Nab match was not a full blown game against a weak young opposition but what really impressed me was the way the ball got into the forward line and how there were so many options and there and i think 10 players got goals PLUS Collingwood also had many young players .

NO forward line in todays game can go through one key forward especially one who has many faults like CLOKE .

Other players must be tried for the sake of the future improvement instead of BROWN and CLOKE

Some of the young ones are Keefe , Gault, maybe White as he has trimmed down and is desperate to improve , hopefully Sharen, Frost, Reid can kick a goal but injury concern .

Many potential champions so lets see if they get there " at the minute' so lets dare to dream and give Bucks a chance not just this year but when a lot of the new gusy from last 2/3 years and this year get games into their legs .

sorry if i have upset anyone .
i base my thoughts on analysing a player not just being a critic without reason

[droversdog65]

Don't know about Brown so much although he has had injuries plague his career. I can see what you're driving at with Cloke though his mere presence sort of unbalances the forward line and the ball seems to head only his way.

In a way it's understandable because if you're a mid or a running back on the wing and you look up with 60 or 50 to go with opposition bearing down on you who do you go to?

Cloke.

I've always preferred him at CHF leading up, this has the opposite effect of dragging defenders with him and opening up the forward line.

It would be different if he was accurate - we have been hoping for years he would unlock that but he hasn't - and it's clear he never will.

[RudeBoy]

I know 17 other clubs which would snap up Cloke if he was available. Nuff said.

[sem]

Do you really think 17 other clubs would want him knowing all the faults he has as per my previous entry .


Maybe only a few bottom teams might take him however the top teams would not let him play his one on one game that he wants to play with the forward line left to him .



Once again I do not know CLOKE and he might be a good guy , but as a player sorry not the future .

Hero worship can go overboard sometimes especially with sportsman but that worship is only deserved if performance matches .

[droversdog65]

I wouldn't be so sure Rudey, certainly not as a stand alone FF as he has been operating with us.

Don't get me wrong I love the bloke but he's been driving every level headed Collingwood fan slowly insane with his terrible kicking for goal.

He has a poor technique and his head is all over the place. He loves the Pies and he's played for unders thus he has my respect but PLEASE he's getting towards the end and he's a poor kick for goal.

Some teams would jump at him but 17??

Not a chance in hell.

[mark (13 11 89 )]

Your opinion is as valid as anyone's sem but for what it's worth, my thoughts on the matter are that we could cut Browny a some slack as this is the first pre-season he has done uninterrupted for yrs! I would reserve judgment on him until the end of the year. And Cloke ( or us ) will benefit from being injury free as well.

I hope!


R.I.P Spock.

[sem]

HI MARK

Unfortunately i see no upside for Brown as he has never been able to show a continuing high standard through a season .

With Cloke his problems are not based on injury they are based on my above faults he has in his game .

i would hope both players rise to a standard they have never been to before but i really doubt it .

[mark (13 11 89 )]

No worries sem. I also should have said that I believe Cloke should be used at CHF only.

[thompsoc]

At least you gave some good analysis which I
appreciated.

[Bob Sugar]

Cloke's being played out of position, get him back to CHF IMO, and Brown is vastly overrated by most fans.

[GoWoodsmen]

[Dave The Man]

Who would want Brown with his Injury History?

[neil]

Trade week is in November a total waste of time having this discussion now

[Pies4shaw]

That's ok, Neil, because this is actually just a wind-up (or, at least, I hope it is).

[kymbo5@yahoo.com.au]

I hear what you are saying Sem and respect your view but I don't agree. I think you are measuring Cloke's performance too much on goals kicked (or missed). With all due respect, I think you're theory is a little bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Unlike Franklin, Roughead, Gunston, Riewoldt (x2) Cloke actually legitimately (as opposed to pretending) chases and tackles. His forward pressure is right up there and does allow others to score. The others need to get to the elite level to go with him.