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| Is the census worth keeping? |
| Yes, it's an important record. |
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87% |
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| Not sure, but I'm open to alternatives being considered. |
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12% |
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| No, it's expensive and the benefits don't justify the costs. |
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0% |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Oh I read that wrong, I thought it said censures as in moderators, I was about to whole heartedly agree with you!
On the other, they piss me off! I got one from the office of statistics yesterday re how many people we employ. I've even rung them and told them we done, we just use sub contractors, but I still have to go online every three months and fill out the $£$%^%%$ form.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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The regular census is the keystone, the one thing we learn about ourselves which makes all the other things possible. No we CANNOT learn the same things with random sample surveys. Sample surveys are great, but they can produce wildly inaccurate results unless you calibrate them against some known, certain thing, and that known, certain thing is census data.
If you are trying to run a country, the very first thing you need is accurate data, information you can rely on. That is what the census does. A government not doing a proper census every few years is like a carpenter not measuring up before he cuts his timber. Not doing the census is like "saving" money by not putting oil in your car.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | The regular census is the keystone, the one thing we learn about ourselves which makes all the other things possible. No we CANNOT learn the same things with random sample surveys. Sample surveys are great, but they can produce wildly inaccurate results unless you calibrate them against some known, certain thing, and that known, certain thing is census data.
If you are trying to run a country, the very first thing you need is accurate data, information you can rely on. That is what the census does. A government not doing a proper census every few years is like a carpenter not measuring up before he cuts his timber. Not doing the census is like "saving" money by not putting oil in your car. |
I'm not necessarily disagreeing here, but if your assertions are correct, can you explain why a country like Canada which is normally sane despite being so fkn cold and having so many french, would go down that path and why NZ is considering it.
I mean, FMD, Noo Zeeland? It's not like it would cost a lot to run a full regular census, just hire one bloke, give him a moped, 2 pens and a notepad and send him off to count people.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Easy: Canada has a loopy hard-right government only marginally less insane than Abbott's mob, and every bit as focused on marginal short-term benefits with no regard for the longer view. New Zealand? Who knows? They are a weird mob. Sometimes they seem to be well ahead of the game and a lot smarter than the average western country. Five minutes later, they make a decision so ridiculous you honestly think it's a parody.
There may be other reasons I'm not aware of, but I find that the obvious jumped-at conclusion turns out to be correct at least half the time, so it's usually a good place to start..
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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partypie
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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The money saved from its abolition will fund data retention, which apparently nobody except the government wants.
Old census data is primary info for historians and researchers. Sites like Ancestry.com charge for providing census info.
Next they won't be building bridges and roads and curing the sick because it's too expensive |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Waste of money and pretty much useless. Its out of date even before the data is collated and analysed.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| partypie wrote: | The money saved from its abolition will fund data retention, which apparently nobody except the government wants.
Old census data is primary info for historians and researchers. Sites like Ancestry.com charge for providing census info.
Next they won't be building bridges and roads and curing the sick because it's too expensive |
My thought too, partypie. This is pure IPA stuff, as pure as anything the government has tried to sneak past the citizenry in the last 18 months.
I don't want to be too dystopian about this, but it's also a lot easier to manipulate the public when public data isn't available. Scaremongering about Muslim invasion is easy enough even though the last census showed that they constitute only about 2% of the population; imagine if a government could just make up a ballpark figure to suit their own ends? Information is power.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| David wrote: | | partypie wrote: | The money saved from its abolition will fund data retention, which apparently nobody except the government wants.
Old census data is primary info for historians and researchers. Sites like Ancestry.com charge for providing census info.
Next they won't be building bridges and roads and curing the sick because it's too expensive |
My thought too, partypie. This is pure IPA stuff, as pure as anything the government has tried to sneak past the citizenry in the last 18 months.
I don't want to be too dystopian about this, but it's also a lot easier to manipulate the public when public data isn't available. Scaremongering about Muslim invasion is easy enough even though the last census showed that they constitute only about 2% of the population; imagine if a government could just make up a ballpark figure to suit their own ends? Information is power. |
Who says the data is accurate anyway. Jedi religion anyone???
Government gets much more accurate and useful data from the tax and transfer system - data that matters not crap that no one can use for any benefit.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | Who says the data is accurate anyway. Jedi religion anyone? |
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | Waste of money and pretty much useless. Its out of date even before the data is collated and analysed. |
It might be, but it's still accurate as at a point in time. That point in time data lets you make accurate historical comparisons and do trend analysis.
Even the people who say "Jedi" as a religion provide some insight.
The better your information data set to start with, the better the reporting and analysis you can do.
If someone wants to do away with an anachronistic public service system, give the AEC an overhaul and introduce some technology, getting rid of the fraking paper, pencils and all the crap that goes with it, and you could have the results within minutes of the close of polls.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Agree with that, Stui. Really no need to be using so much paper. Obviously there'd be worries about data being erased or manipulated, but it shouldn't be too hard to get around that in 2015.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Dude, if anyone was worried about data being erased, why the **** are we using pencils to vote?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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"Religion Jedi" in fact provides a significantly more meaningful summary of a respondent's religious views than, for example, "Christian" (which could mean almost anything). It doesn't just indicate that the respondent has no religion, it also indicates roughly how important they think that is, i.e., not very. Compare with "Christian" which might mean any of a zillion sects, and any level of commitment from full-on Bible thumping all day every day right through to someone who has never been inside a church or given religion a serious thought and answers "Christian" out of vague habit 'coz Granny got married in a chuirch, probably.
In any case, the religion question is not an especially important one (though undoubtedly interesting) and not everybody answers it. The boring nuts and bolts of housing and employment and so on are the tghings we actually need to know to run the country properly.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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