Another American Sniper

[think positive]

[David]

I can compare all I like. It's up to you and others to judge whether or not it's an appropriate comparison.

Personally, I've never liked this kind of doublethink, in which all of our understanding of ethical behaviour is completely suspended as soon as we start talking about war; where the act of killing another human being ceases to be a grave crime and becomes not just a meaningless act—which would be bad enough—but something actually warranting praise, even reverence.

This is not about blaming soldiers. For me, the key difference between an ordinary murder and killing on the battlefield is culpability; soldiers cannot be deemed culpable, because they are acting on the orders of superiors. But that doesn't make the act itself any less barbaric, brutal or horrific.

What I was saying in my first post, or trying to say, was this: snipers are no more culpable than any other soldier or fighter pilot or naval marine; what they do just looks worse. Otherwise, all kill on the behalf of politicians and generals and voting publics too shit scared to actually carry out (and face) the violence that they demand. On that level, I respect soldiers. But I will always oppose their glorification and sanctification, because what they do is terrible.

[think positive]

[David]

I said "the war equivalent"—i.e. I consider the two analogous.

Otherwise, is it brave or cowardly to snipe enemy soldiers from a hidden location? I suppose it's all a matter of perspective.

[think positive]

Gees David, really?

They take out a threat to even more soldiers

Happens on both sides

I take offence at you comparing anyone in uniform, what ever sides uniform with say ratters son, who king hit a kid, kicked him in the head, and when he was unconscious, kept kicking him,


If you don't get the difference well , wot can I say"

[David]

[think positive]

David, truly, don't bait me tonight


Your a jerk an an embarrassment with statements like that

[David]

I'm not trying to be offensive; just think about it objectively: what's worse, killing 24 people with a gun or punching one person in the head? Seriously.

Putting a uniform on doesn't make everything okay. It's still 24 lives.

[think positive]

[David]

It's not that I can't see the difference; it's just the selective outrage that I find disturbing. Saying "it's war" as if that justifies everything just doesn't cut it for me (and name one instance in which a war has potentially saved more lives than it has cost—I'm struggling to think of any).

Once again, I don't blame the soldiers. But the acts that they are committing in the name of others should not be celebrated. All of war is tragedy.

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

Anybody who would consider a military sniper as a "coward" has absolutely NFI. It takes a special kind of bravery for a sane man to insert themselves undercover into a situation, with no support around them, to take out the target assigned to them and then get away alive.

And yes, these are men, not psychopaths, so they need to dehumanise the target in their own mind as much as they can in order to do what they do, but it's not something that anyone can do for an extended period while remaining sane.

They are there to do a job and the job that they do saves lives.

It's not doublethink to have the state authorise some acts of violence and prohibit others.

[David]

I don't understand your point. Do you think I support those people? My criticism lies with warfare in general, so I don't see why you think I'd be inclined to give Adolf Hitler a free pass.

Anyway, if you can be outraged at my refusal to deify soldiers, I'm saddened by your and others' tacit acceptance of death and slaughter so long as the other side are on the receiving end.

<Note: I've split the WW2 conversation from here because we've gone way off topic. This thread is for sniping. No, not that kind of sniping. Carry on!>

[HAL]

When were they?

[think positive]