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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | Yes, because 11 year olds and loaded weapons are such a wonderful mix...ffs  |
My thoughts exactly.
Would it be such a good news story if she accidentally shot herself, killed a sibling in a fit of rage, took it to school to kill the class bully, had the weapon taken away from her and used against her, or scared the intruder into shooting her?
To use this story as some kind of advertisement for gun legalisation is certifiably crazy. |
Yeah and if ya mother was ya father you'd be adopted! |
The point is that if you give loaded guns to every 11-year-old child and teach them how to use them, each of the above outcomes are much more likely than the child managing to save the day by scaring off an intruder (who might, gasp, steal the playstation). This should be patently obvious to everyone, which is why I would have thought that even gun advocates would agree that guns should only be used by adults.
But I dunno, perhaps there's a feelgood story out there about a 10-year-old boy driving his dying dad to hospital, so we can all discuss whether it's a good idea to let 10-year-olds drive.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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I thought this was going to be a thread about ridding our society of guns.
Seems the Tea Party is a comin'
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I think When the debate is a lot of things. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Wokko wrote: | | When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. |
Do you agree at least that putting loaded firearms within the reach of preteens is probably not a good idea?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Wokko wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | Yes, because 11 year olds and loaded weapons are such a wonderful mix...ffs |
Well in this case it was indeed a wonderful mix.
Had she not had that loaded weapon the story could have been much worse. An 11 year old who is properly taught responsible firearms ownership and use is fine. I had friends in primary school who went hunting with their dads at that age, in the USA that would be common and accepted. |
I was taught responsible firearm use at the same age and often went hunting with my father. I also often strapped his 12 gauge and a box of shells to my trail bike and snuck off to go shooting on my own. Kids that age often make mistakes and do stupid things even when trained. I love shooting and am seriously considering getting back into it but loaded weapons have absolutely no place in the hands of kids without supervision. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. |
Do you agree at least that putting loaded firearms within the reach of preteens is probably not a good idea? |
I would generally agree, but your question is emotionally loaded. I would think it a good idea to teach a child that age to shoot, teach them gun safety and demystify firearms. I would also say that safe storage, even if easily accessible is paramount. In most of the cases we've seen reported lately there is a loaded firearm in a stupid place around children far too young to know what it is (under the couch, 3 year old for example).
It would seem in this case the child knew where the guns are kept and how to access them, we don't know anything as far as storage or well anything. All we know is an armed intruder entered a house where an 11 year old girl was home alone and she had the wherewithal to find the shotgun, hide and point it at the cupboard door. There are hundreds of thousands of defensive firearm uses in the States every year. This doesn't mean someone is shot, this is someone using a firearm to defend themselves or their families or property against an aggressor. Of course, these instances don't make it into Australian mainstream media.
Also seems no matter how often I mention safe, stable nations with liberal gun laws nobody wants to talk about them. Australia used to be one of those nations. New Zealand still is. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm a bit in two minds here.
I grew up in a house full of guns, many of them laying around loaded. I was taught to respect the weapons and taught to use them by age 11, under supervision. At 14 or 15 I'd often ride the push bike out of town on the weekend with another kid the same age, both of us riding through town with a .22 slung over the shoulder, a shotgun across the handle bars and a bag of ammo etc across the other shoulder.
You wouldn't encourage an 11 year old to be handling weapons unsupervised but in this situation knowing how to use them probably saved her life.
I let both of my kids try shooting a rifle,under supervision, at less than 11. Neither had any real interest in pursuing it but the one taste meant neither of them went near them again as kids.
Where I go the other way is i tend to think our current national consistent gun laws are an improvement. You can still legally purchase and own firearms, you just have to go through a few more hoops and certain types are restricted which I don't have a problem with. Much as I'd like to have a silenced Uzi to assist Possums with their birth control, I accept it's just not a practical thing.
The gun debate in Australia now tends to always get stuck on the people who have zero practical knowledge or experience of guns but are very loud in their opinion of how no one should have them.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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I had a kidney and a spleen left in bits in the Ararat hospital as a result of being shot when I was 15 and have never been interested in guns since. It doesn't make me any less qualified than a gun owner to make a point that 11 year olds should not be able to access fully loaded weapons without proper safeguards.
Did they also mention that a toddler took a handgun out of a handbag and shot his Mum and Dad this week. His dad was not allowed to own a gun for previous errors.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | | When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. |
A good news story: children & guns: definitely an oxymoron.
The use of desk calendar sayings is as ridiculous as the thread's arguments that children should have access to guns.
It reflects a paranoid view of the world, access to police radio or too much time on the internet or possibly all of the above or bits of the above.
I think Tannin mentioned there are more chances of....
However, as noted previously:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE&list=PLOKWcH1zBl2kfnCwyyZWk5MW28lgaNa7L
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TABgNerEro8
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | I'm a bit in two minds here.
I grew up in a house full of guns, many of them laying around loaded. I was taught to respect the weapons and taught to use them by age 11, under supervision. At 14 or 15 I'd often ride the push bike out of town on the weekend with another kid the same age, both of us riding through town with a .22 slung over the shoulder, a shotgun across the handle bars and a bag of ammo etc across the other shoulder.
You wouldn't encourage an 11 year old to be handling weapons unsupervised but in this situation knowing how to use them probably saved her life.
I let both of my kids try shooting a rifle,under supervision, at less than 11. Neither had any real interest in pursuing it but the one taste meant neither of them went near them again as kids.
Where I go the other way is i tend to think our current national consistent gun laws are an improvement. You can still legally purchase and own firearms, you just have to go through a few more hoops and certain types are restricted which I don't have a problem with. Much as I'd like to have a silenced Uzi to assist Possums with their birth control, I accept it's just not a practical thing.
The gun debate in Australia now tends to always get stuck on the people who have zero practical knowledge or experience of guns but are very loud in their opinion of how no one should have them. |
I don't think people say no one should have them. I'd say no men should have them  
Shooting clubs, farmers & licensed shooters etc.
But I also want duck hunting banned or perhaps two men in a cage with guns - yeah that would work.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | I'm a bit in two minds here.
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Bout time you admitted it 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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