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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Abbott was clearly always a nutter and a weirdo and little else. Shorten is clearly middling and dull and little else. Have you ever heard Shorten put forward an interesting idea? Don't hold your breath. Expect these people to be as they've always been.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| stui magpie wrote: |
Abbott had the Miners up his sleeve to stir up public sentiment against Labor, Labor has the ACTU waiting in the wings to unleash their "work choices Mk II" scare campaign against the Libs when it's required. |
Stui look at your choice of words, "stir up public sentiment"/"scare campaign" ...... and you wonder why you're perceived as a LNP man. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I think each description is reasonably accurate. If that leads to people making assumptions, so be it. The way this place seems to work is that if you aren't a card carrying member of the "We hate the Libs" brigade then you must be a Lib supporter.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| It's not an assumption it's a perception. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | Shorten hasn't done anything wrong so far.
There seems to be an unwarranted shrill reaction to him. Shorten is there to win & he is doing nicely thank you very much. |
Shorten hasn't done anything. Only a fool would attribute the current opinion polls to his success as an opposition leader; it's almost entirely down to the actions of Abbott and his looney bin frontbench. Obviously it's helped that the government's policies have been blocked in the senate, but it doesn't take a political genius to say "no" to everything. Anyway, the Palmer United Party deserve just as much credit for the government's frustrations. Vote 1 Clive. 
Shorten can't just coast along forever. It's not just about policy (though I don't have high hopes on that front); he has to actually present a compelling alternative to the status quo. If he just delivers more of what was served up in 2007-2013, he'll have a similarly short stint in office before the next populist coalition wingnut comes along. And our country will continue to stagnate.
I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to actually see some inspired, progressive leadership in Australia before I die. |
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Abbott had the Miners up his sleeve to stir up public sentiment against Labor, Labor has the ACTU waiting in the wings to unleash their "work choices Mk II" scare campaign against the Libs when it's required.
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Round the wrong way Stui. Big business including the miners have their man in Canberra now.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Both sides of politics are full of uninspiring monotone people.
Shorten just adds to that list.
Probably doesn't support such issues like gay marriage just like Tone either.
He's another Jesus lover.
I saw last night that lawyers, financial advisers and doctors got voted in in the QLD election and that was just on the Labor side.
Not a lot of difference between the right side of Labor and the more liberal of Liberals these days.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | Shorten hasn't done anything wrong so far.
There seems to be an unwarranted shrill reaction to him. Shorten is there to win & he is doing nicely thank you very much. |
Shorten hasn't done anything. Only a fool would attribute the current opinion polls to his success as an opposition leader; it's almost entirely down to the actions of Abbott and his looney bin frontbench. Obviously it's helped that the government's policies have been blocked in the senate, but it doesn't take a political genius to say "no" to everything. Anyway, the Palmer United Party deserve just as much credit for the government's frustrations. Vote 1 Clive.
Shorten can't just coast along forever. It's not just about policy (though I don't have high hopes on that front); he has to actually present a compelling alternative to the status quo. If he just delivers more of what was served up in 2007-2013, he'll have a similarly short stint in office before the next populist coalition wingnut comes along. And our country will continue to stagnate.
I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to actually see some inspired, progressive leadership in Australia before I die. |
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Abbott had the Miners up his sleeve to stir up public sentiment against Labor, Labor has the ACTU waiting in the wings to unleash their "work choices Mk II" scare campaign against the Libs when it's required.
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Round the wrong way Stui. Big business including the miners have their man in Canberra now. |
OK, it works the other way round too, big business have their man in canberra now and the ACTU have their man waiting to take that job.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Not quite as simple as that.
If you want to use that analogy then you would be beholden (or ford) to look at power relations.
Remember Gina has more assets (under the ground) than a lot of other countries GNP
Unions are workers with representation. Paid your dues have you?  
Big business is merely interested in how much it can make for how little: see the stacked Audit review.
How much did Gina want to pay her miners?
Edit for spelling
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: |
Unions are workers with representation. |
Mate seriously update to at least the latter stages of the 20th century if not the 21st.
That was the origin, yes, no issues or arguments. That's not how it works now. Unions are not "the worker", they are an organisation that (hopefully) represents workers.
You're a smart man, drop the idealism and start looking at things as they are rather than how they used to be or how you'd like them to be.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
Unions are workers with representation. |
Mate seriously update to at least the latter stages of the 20th century if not the 21st.
That was the origin, yes, no issues or arguments. That's not how it works now. Unions are not "the worker", they are an organisation that (hopefully) represents workers.
You're a smart man, drop the idealism and start looking at things as they are rather than how they used to be or how you'd like them to be. |
OK then, they are workers organizations representing workers interests.
Are they any good at their job? That is another matter.
I'm in the here & now. It's the Union movement that will be representing me & in my line of work I am seriously underpaid - I want parity with my NSW colleagues who also have it much easier than we do. Try f*cking with my penalty rates & I lose a lot of moolah that in part rewards my efforts.
It's the Union for workers - don't be under the false illusion we can all bargain individually for our wages & conditions.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Keep in mind that the same union (different branch) negotiates conditions for NSW nurses.
You want the same pay rate as the ones in NSW?
In NSW they don't have ratios. Their base wage is higher, I haven't compared the allowances and penalty payments, they're all different so trying to do an apples v apples comparison is fkn hard.
Maybe if you could negotiate an individual contract instead of being constrained by what the ANMF Vic negotiated on your behalf, you'd be better off.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Whitlam, Hayden, Hawke, keating....... Then Latham, Rudd, Gillard, Shorten. Someone turned the power off in about 1996 and it's stayed off ever since.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | Keep in mind that the same union (different branch) negotiates conditions for NSW nurses.
You want the same pay rate as the ones in NSW?
In NSW they don't have ratios. Their base wage is higher, I haven't compared the allowances and penalty payments, they're all different so trying to do an apples v apples comparison is fkn hard.
Maybe if you could negotiate an individual contract instead of being constrained by what the ANMF Vic negotiated on your behalf, you'd be better off. |
Ha Ha. Like your humour. However, I can't speak to ratio's but they are important.
My work has zero to do with ratios. My work is all about Emergency work & should be paid as emergency workers. If someone carks it (so to speak & in the nicest possible way ) it's my arse not the Dr's, it's my assessment that is gone through by the coroner with a fine tooth comb. This is especially the case with the Police. Touch wood (see me touching the mad monks head) so far despite my years no one has suicided on my watch directly after I've assessed them. BTW, NSW in my job has Dr's everywhere. We don't. I have a Dr 3 x 1/2 days a week. As the community sector is de skilled with older nurses moving on we have diluted the experience pool & a lot more now come to ED's & Police than used to be the case.
Now hands off my wages & conditions you management lover
I used to work in management in the 1990's & was telling "my staff" to join the union so I could deal with one group of people representing them.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Maybe if you could negotiate an individual contract instead of being constrained by what the ANMF Vic negotiated on your behalf, you'd be better off. |
And maybe there are 27 farken big pigs up there in the clouds outside your house today.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Maybe if you could negotiate an individual contract instead of being constrained by what the ANMF Vic negotiated on your behalf, you'd be better off. |
And maybe there are 27 farken big pigs up there in the clouds outside your house today. |
Flying bacon, yay.
I've been on an individual contract. have you?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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